Have we given up on SCH?

[GrimGale]

Considering the amount of time healers fill with Broil and Glare (And malefic to a lesser degree.), it's not unreasonable to ask for more engaging non healing abilities.

Oh and please spare us the "if you want to dps play dps" crap. We are asking for more interesting healing downtime. It doesn't translate automatically to more dps buttons.

[Sloprano]

Considering the amount of time healers fill with Broil and Glare (And malefic to a lesser degree.), it's not unreasonable to ask for more engaging non healing abilities.

Oh and please spare us the "if you want to dps play dps" crap. We are asking for more interesting healing downtime. It doesn't translate automatically to more dps buttons.

I've tried healing, tanking and dps in Shadowbringers, they all seem so polished down, but with little to set them apart in playstyles. World and dungeon fights unfortunately get predictable very fast and there is little in the skillset to allow for just endless potiental over a single button to do damage we have now. First I thought it was balanced for Savage so that SE would want me to raid. But I have no interest in raiding, and from reports here it isn't rewarding even there. ARR and HW didn't have this problem so I'm still curious to where SE is coming from with this.

Been giving WoW Classic a go. Mana is a constant issue, overpulling and patrols pose a danger both in and out of dungeons. It's slow, inconvenient, unfair, no dailies, satisfying, memorable and fun. Classes are very simple but makes up for it with an unforgiving world. HW Scholar used to feel directly opposite, with a forgiving world but limitless possibilities for improvement on the job. World is still very much forgiving but possibilities are limited.

[EaMett]

Im actually opposed to putting seraph on the gauge. When optimized you will use your gauge plenty, I don’t want to chew into it more. Not to mention that seraph already comes with its set of «*locks*», don’t need to have it behind another one with gauge requirements. That’s a lot for an ogcd succor.

Also I agree that classic wow was slow, unforgiving, simple, but that all of that made it fun. SE really needs to understand that difficult things give players more options and make things more fun and rewarding. Whether it be a difficult world or a difficult class. Options are fun even if you don’t use all of them regularly. The AST card change is a perfect example of this.

[Wawachume]

Also I agree that classic wow was slow, unforgiving, simple, but that all of that made it fun. SE really needs to understand that difficult things give players more options and make things more fun and rewarding. Whether it be a difficult world or a difficult class. Options are fun even if you don’t use all of them regularly. The AST card change is a perfect example of this.

Between those two options, I definitely prefer the complex classes over the difficult world. You can make a class such that it's easy enough to use at a basic level, but requires more and more micromanagement as you optimize it. Without completely reworking the game, I think it would be impossible to achieve that with the world---world difficulty is fixed, so some people would always find it too easy and others impossibly difficult.

Besides, what I learned from (retail) WoW is that "harder world content" apparently means mobs have huge health pools but still hit like wet noodles so it takes five minutes to kill one. >.<

[EaMett]

Besides, what I learned from (retail) WoW is that "harder world content" apparently means mobs have huge health pools but still hit like wet noodles so it takes five minutes to kill one. >.<

My memories of vanilla wow was that they hit pretty damn hard. To the point where aggro of more than 2 mobs ment running away or facing death. And that only got worse with higher levels or elites of course

[Wawachume]

My memories of vanilla wow was that they hit pretty damn hard. To the point where aggro of more than 2 mobs ment running away or facing death. And that only got worse with higher levels or elites of course

Yes, that's why I said "retail". I only played from late Cataclysm through Legion myself. The huge-health-pools method is a more recent thing.

[Brightamethyst]

Yes, that's why I said "retail". I only played from late Cataclysm through Legion myself. The huge-health-pools method is a more recent thing.

The giant health pools are mostly about letting people share quest bosses and rares. It's the only way to let them live long enough for multiple people to get kill credit. Normal mobs don't generally have that much HP.

It's like that in XIV too. A B rank hunk mark isn't hard to kill, it just takes forever, giving other people time to get there and help you kill it.

[Wawachume]

The giant health pools are mostly about letting people share quest bosses and rares. It's the only way to let them live long enough for multiple people to get kill credit. Normal mobs don't generally have that much HP.

It's like that in XIV too. A B rank hunk mark isn't hard to kill, it just takes forever, giving other people time to get there and help you kill it.

No, I mean---wasn't there at least one time in late WoD or Legion where they said they wanted to make the world "more challenging" and mostly just increased mob health pools?

(The rares and stuff, obviously, should have big health pools. That I get.)

[kobe-sabi]

I been a SCH since 2.0 it's been my favorite healer, but SE takes away spells, then give them back when we say we want that spell back, 2.0 to 3.0, 3.0 to 4.0,4.0 to 5.0 you would think SE would have sense enough to keep the spells we ask for, in the game. But no, they double down each expansion, we have been the Dot type damage dealer with shields as a heal, with a pets that can sub as an weaker WHM or a buffer . I loved SCH and i leveled it to 80 but i dount touch it, hell i dont touch any healer or tank job for exception of GNB.

[Eloah]

I been a SCH since 2.0 it's been my favorite healer, but SE takes away spells, then give them back when we say we want that spell back, 2.0 to 3.0, 3.0 to 4.0,4.0 to 5.0 you would think SE would have sense enough to keep the spells we ask for, in the game. But no, they double down each expansion, we have been the Dot type damage dealer with shields as a heal, with a pets that can sub as an weaker WHM or a buffer . I loved SCH and i leveled it to 80 but i dount touch it, hell i dont touch any healer or tank job for exception of GNB.

Slightly confused what you mean/meant by 2.0 to 3.0. Nothing changed when HW dropped, ability-wise anyway. We just got new skills. I think there were a few tweaks here and there but basically nothing was removed. They need to look at what each expansion brought and what worked and what "failed" role skills, failed initially, now the concept is as it should of been, PvP changes were great, the upgrade system for skills, is decent, but could be a bit better, how I dunno, but it does feel like it's missing something. And the gauges, some that were added in felt lackluster if not downright useless, looking at you Lily system and heat gauge. They need to adjust it so that each job feel "complete" at 50 and then feels like its stronger from there, ironically MCH feels like that now. But most jobs dont feel complete until 60.