Have we given up on SCH?

[CrimsonGunner]

in the end what i'm saying is SE decided lets ruin the healing role for all jobs.
WHM will be the base,the first that get butchered in skills and all will be made in its shadow which will become a mere copy.

it isn't just an issue of whats wrong with a specific job,its should concern the whole healer community since all are feeling it.
WHM /AST/SCH we will all suffer from this unless SE will make a good and proper plan and vision to their classes otherwise all the different healer jobs will become one and every healer job can say "i am grot".

[Brightamethyst]

The biggest issue with all the healers right now is that the devs's 'intended design' is completely at odds with actual gameplay.

They removed and simplified DPS and cards while adding a lot of healing abilities. That clearly says they want more healing and less DPSing, but they didn't change the battle system or fight mechanics to support that play style. Healing is still incredibly strong and incoming damage is still incredibly predictable. Outside of doing huge pulls in dungeons, nothing requires that much healing. We still spend most of our time DPSing, it's just more boring now.

[DenzelVilliers]

I mean SCH is in a good place in that it works well and is efficient and heals well and DPS's well. But that's meaningless if the job is no longer enjoyable to play. Just as people saying "there's nothing wrong with WHM" your saying "SCH is in a good place" is not wholly fair.

It's fair because as you said, SCH works well, are good Damage Dealer and Healers and want more skills just "to be fun" to play with, while WHM/AST needs some skill rework to become more efficient because their skills has some issues to be fixed, not only be fun, a more urgent question to deal with and waste time and resources to improve it above anything else.

But WHM/AST also deserves to be fun, also deserves some skills back to be fun if SCH requires for it.

WHM has 22 Unique Skills in their hotbar, AST/SCH has 26 Unique Skills in their hotbar. WHM must spam Holy for AoE ( 1 skill ), Dia and Glare for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Afflatus Misery and Assize as CDs ( 5 skills total ), AST must spam Gravity for AoE ( 1 skill ), Malefic IV and Combust III for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Earthly Star as CDs ( 4 Skills total ), SCH must spam Arts of War for AoE ( 1 skill ), Broil III, Ruin II and Biolysis for Single Target ( 3 skills ) and Energy Drain as CD ( 5 skills total ), they have basically the same amount of damage skills and yet SCH still have more options to do in single target fight. As you can see, that's not a "SCH issue to be fun", it's a General Healer issue to be fun, not only one, all of them deserves to be requested and comtemplated for it and we need to ask for improvment about every single one.

I don't think anyone is going to complain if people open threads that reaches all Healers point instead ask for only one, most of people is looking for a balance between them, not only for a new healer but for ingame content as well, FFXIV Producers can't hear all Players plea to improve the game, but they hear many of them and applies improvements based on it, when we don't openly talk about what's going on in general they can pick up some requests here and there ignoring what's matter and the real problem ( some requests that not even was really relevant ).

[Saefinn]

It's fair because as you said, SCH works well, are good Damage Dealer and Healers and want more skills just "to be fun" to play with, while WHM/AST needs some skill rework to become more efficient because their skills has some issues to be fixed, not only be fun, a more urgent question to deal with and waste time and resources to improve it above anything else.

But WHM/AST also deserves to be fun, also deserves some skills back to be fun if SCH requires for it.

My argument would be make all 3 healers fun first before trying to fix them. I'd prefer a broken SCH I enjoy than a non-broken SCH I hate. So SCH working well (by your view) does absolutely nothing for me while I am not enjoying it. I am one of those who complains that SCH is OP despite playing SCH. Though I don't know if it still technically is, but it was definitely in HW and SB. But I'd not be surprised if it still is.

And hey, I defended WHM when people started saying it was fine when it was doing so much better than SCH and AST in new content, because I knew there was stuff career WHM's wanted changed, were unhappy with and were a little shadowed by the fact AST and SCH got immediate big changes, when WHM's was gradual.

We acknowledge that it is a general healer issue to be fun. Honestly, I thought the forums were pretty united on this point. There's a lot of generic threads, but also a lot of job specific ones - AST threads currently dominate with SCH in second. But we need more WHM's complaining if anything if they unhappy. I've been bringing up WHM as I go along as having issues, but I'm not a guy who can really do WHM justice. I've created a thread that's inclusive of WHM, SCH and AST. Billy, who you've also engaged has made a thread that's inclusive of WHM, SCH and AST. As 2 examples.

Without trying to be rude, it's great saying what representation there should be in the threads on the forum, but I don't recall seeing any you've made. I made one about healer downtime because I felt that one of the more prevalent issues across all 3 healers, although I don't think I am the best representation out, there, I made it and I made it with that disclaimer. You're a WHM, we lack WHM threads, if you think there's reasonable feedback you can give on improving WHM's, by all means jump into the generic healer threads if you not already & start a WHM thread too, if any WHM's lurking they may chime in with their own thoughts and feedback.

[Hatstand]

But WHM/AST also deserves to be fun, also deserves some skills back to be fun if SCH requires for it.

WHM has 22 Unique Skills in their hotbar, AST/SCH has 26 Unique Skills in their hotbar. WHM must spam Holy for AoE ( 1 skill ), Dia and Glare for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Afflatus Misery and Assize as CDs ( 5 skills total ), AST must spam Gravity for AoE ( 1 skill ), Malefic IV and Combust III for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Earthly Star as CDs ( 4 Skills total ), SCH must spam Arts of War for AoE ( 1 skill ), Broil III, Ruin II and Biolysis for Single Target ( 3 skills ) and Energy Drain as CD ( 5 skills total ), they have basically the same amount of damage skills and yet SCH still have more options to do in single target fight. As you can see, that's not a "SCH issue to be fun", it's a General Healer issue to be fun, not only one, all of them deserves to be requested and comtemplated for it and we need to ask for improvment about every single one.

I don't think anyone is going to complain if people open threads that reaches all Healers point instead ask for only one, most of people is looking for a balance between them, not only for a new healer but for ingame content as well, FFXIV Producers can't hear all Players plea to improve the game, but they hear many of them and applies improvements based on it, when we don't openly talk about what's going on in general they can pick up some requests here and there ignoring what's matter and the real problem ( some requests that not even was really relevant ).

Then why haven’t you been posting this on any of the many AST threads that have been posted this week?

Why don’t you make a thread about healers? Or better yet, bump one of the existing threads about all healers by responding to it? Because it seems to me like you’re more interested in keeping SCH specifically down than in building WHM up. I’ve seen WHMs like that before.

Actually, from memory, the last one marked their job as conjurer, too.

But let me ask you this: would you rather see one healer get an improvement in playstyle, even if it’s not yours, or hold them all back until they can all be improved? WHM is not my main by any stretch of the imagination, but I’d be overjoyed if they got a rework they were happy with. The reason I’m asking for a SCH rework is that it’s something that could be easily achieved in a patch (due to existing assets), whereas a WHM rework would probably be new expansion stuff. And they deserve better, too, but I’ll take what I can get.

[EaMett]

Sch doesn’t “work well” it still has to deal with faerie bugs, a significant amount of clipping and the weird fact that galvanize has higher priority over catalyze, essentially rendering the later useless for the most part.

Also, WHM afflatus skills are actually fun to optimize around. If they just got potency on fluid aura they would be in a good spot. I've had no desire to play AST this expansion, I feel like they really need a bit of love.

[xxvaynxx]

Too lazy to read all this but what's wrong with sch?
They're as strong as they always have been.

[Naychan]

While scholar is functional it’s not really fun anymore. The whole reason I chose it was because of the dots and multiple fairy options. It’s had a great flow to it. Now it feels disjointed. I enjoyed the hybrid part of it. Now it’s just a whm clone with an erratic pet. Whm feels better to play and ast feels clunky like a model t car. I’m starting to feel really sorry that I resubbed for six months.

[Arrhin]

I'm not reading all the previous comments because I'm cat and lazy af, also been a long day. I have played SCH, and will play SCH, as long as I can do the healy things well enough to keep all them punchy stabby ppl alive. I played SCH when it was week af, I played it when it was OP af. I identify as SCH, now git yer clouds of me lawn..

[DenzelVilliers]

...

i'm not WHM, i'm Tank, PLD/GNB mostly, PLD for my favorite job and GNB for their Achievments that i'm farming, but i do play mainly all Tanks in general. When i play Healer i usually do WHM for Dungeons and SCHs for End-Game content, SCH actually is my favorite healer at this moment, i do play AST as well but it's totally random about my preferences to go ( dungeons or end-game content ).

You not even considerate if you got all those skills to your SCH back it should be nerfed, to not break their job in comparison to the others, if the point it's all about to be fun not to be OP Broken, so reducing all their skills damage potency by half wouldn't be a problem, but that possibility never came at your mind or many others here, so your Damage would remain basically the same that already is but more fun to play with more skills to cast, so their potency would be ajusted to fit ito new amount. But seems like be fun isn't the only point required here, be broken is the another one like SCH should be on the top for every point.

And i disagree that WHM changes was gradual, it was indeed gradual since 2.0 until now, but they lost more Skills, Traits and Effects than SCH does in SB, deleted and/or became Role Skills, they immediatly got huge changes in their kit there, ShB made some changes too, took away many skills ( not too many like SB did, because there wasn't many skills to do that, WHM already have the smaller Healer skill kit for that reason ). It was a point where their Healing and Damage was the worst, even AST consuming time drawing their cards and way less damage portency skills was doing more DPS than WHM in SB.