Have we given up on SCH?

[DenzelVilliers]

"Others have bad abilities too, why complain about your bad ability?" And honestly, if they never release a 4th healer, I find it'd be for the best. They can't handle 3. They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance" (good job btw, square, healers are still unbalanced, with the meta for the as prevalent as it has always been, just changed who was in the meta) and still haven't addressed any of the problems WHM has had for YEARS. Why on Earth would I ever want a 4th healer thrown into that mix? Just so they can gut the classes even more for the sake of "balance"?

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

"They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance"... no, they didn't took away those skills for the "sake of balance", damage skills could be nerfed for "the sake of balance" instead litetally deleted, they took those skills away to force healers to be "pure heal", not to only "balance". No one is asking for SCHs be nerfed or anything else to the "sake of balance", "for the sake of balance" they must have equivalent skills that compensate between them ( equivalent ≠ same ).

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

[CrimsonGunner]

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

"They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance"... no, they didn't took away those skills for the "sake of balance", damage skills could be nerfed for "the sake of balance" instead litetally deleted, they took those skills away to force healers to be "pure heal", not to only "balance". No one is asking for SCHs be nerfed or anything else to the "sake of balance", "for the sake of balance" they must have equivalent skills that compensate between them ( equivalent ≠ same ).

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

WHM kit may be gutted from skills and iconic ones at that but the overhaul kit remains true to what WHM is and their view of him.it didn't lost its identity just a few skills .
WHM is still a straightforward and classic healer as he was and will remain a fav among those who liked the simple job of healing despite what SE did to the poor job.
dont get me wrong all healers are a mess but WHM is the only one who SE kept its core(only cause his core was the plain healer and there was nothing to take).

[Hatstand]

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

"They completely gutted AST and SCH of everything that made them fun and unique for the sake of "balance"... no, they didn't took away those skills for the "sake of balance", damage skills could be nerfed for "the sake of balance" instead litetally deleted, they took those skills away to force healers to be "pure heal", not to only "balance". No one is asking for SCHs be nerfed or anything else to the "sake of balance", "for the sake of balance" they must have equivalent skills that compensate between them ( equivalent ≠ same ).

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

I mean, there are lots of AST threads out there so I don’t really think they need the representation here. As for WHM

1. I do acknowledge that they also need help, but this thread is to talk about SCH specifically. One of the problems with current healers is homogenisation, with all the healers feeling like WHM+X. If we ask for the same changes to all 3 healers, they’re up just going to end up feeling like WHM+X+Y.

2. SE has existing assets for SCH, so it would be incredibly easy for them to put some of the skills people are missing back in. Which makes the fact that they haven’t done it worse. I understand saying “we have other things to work on and don’t have time to come up with new moves for you mid expansion”. I don’t understand saying “we have all the assets and all it would take is some potency changes other classes are getting anyway but we’re not going to just because”. (Or just because they have a healer ideology that flies in the face of what it’s actually like to play healer.)

3. WHM has been like this for years. I haven’t played it much. The other two were my favourites. And yet WHM was still the most popular healer (or at least a popular healer), so there must have been something that the people who played it liked about it. That makes me hesitant to ask for changes on their behalf, because what if I ask for a change to the things they like? A lot of old WHM mains seem to like current SCH and I think current SCH is a travesty (compared to what it could be), and I wouldn’t want to put them in my position where WHM becomes something I like and they hate. So, I’ll aupport them in their campaigns, and even throw an idea out here and there, but I’m not going to campaign directly for specific WHM changes.

[Saefinn]

The question here is that there's no "bad skills" to Begin with, no "real issues" to Begin with, are just people asking for more buttons to smash. And i didn't said that you can't ask for more, i did said if you going to ask for more, ask for ALL OF THEM, not Only one, if you want SCH AoE DoTs back ask for AST(new)/WHM AoE DoTs back as well, they can't handle 3 because people is always asking for especific Healers and unbalanced stuff, while some healers ( Aka WHM ) always keep aside from anything and eventually forgotten because they become worthless.

You may not be saying "you can't ask for more" but you are dismissing them by suggesting they're not real issues. Of course they're real issues. If a job has been made boring when it hasn't always been. That's a real issue.

How useful its skills doesn't make a difference if you're no longer having fun with it. Unless you're one of those who values efficiency over it.

Homogenisation is another issue because healer playability is more homogenised than it has ever been.

And it's funny to you to say that, as SCH and AST are the biggest "victim" here, when WHM lost over 50% of their Skill Kit, their Traits, their Potencies and more, every expansion WHM loses more than actually gains and do you think that SCH/AST is boring now, that SCH/AST are the ones who always lose Skills?, oh please WHM say hi, they are the one who's completly gutted always without any reason for it, especially in SB and ShB.

In Billy's defence, Billy acknowledged that SE hasn't addressed WHM's problems for years. AST and SCH this time around got hit hardest BUT that's only because WHM already had their's happen gradually. We know WHM doesn't get the love it needs. Prolly hence the emphasis on "YEARS".