New SCH, have a few questions

[AncientCrystal]

Just hit lv80 SCH, questions:

1. When you Summon Seraph, can you combine the effects of Seraphic Veil and Consolation? But I heard S. Veil just targets one person?

2. Can you combine a bunch of effects together? EX: Succor, Seraphic Veil, and Consolation?

3. Recitation: Since this makes stuff auto crit, does it not work on Excog? I tried it once on myself but it didn't crit.

[YusiKha]

Just hit lv80 SCH, questions:

1. When you Summon Seraph, can you combine the effects of Seraphic Veil and Consolation? But I heard S. Veil just targets one person?

2. Can you combine a bunch of effects together? EX: Succor, Seraphic Veil, and Consolation?

3. Recitation: Since this makes stuff auto crit, does it not work on Excog? I tried it once on myself but it didn't crit.

1) They apply the same shield buff, so no.
2) Galvanise, Catalyse, and Seraphic Veil stack.
3) It works on Excog, just doesn't have the ! text.

[AncientCrystal]

1) They apply the same shield buff, so no.
2) Galvanise, Catalyse, and Seraphic Veil stack.
3) It works on Excog, just doesn't have the ! text.

Excog not having the "!" marker needs to be patched in then. That's honestly confusing.
But yea thanks for the responce.

[Eloah]

Excog not having the "!" marker needs to be patched in then. That's honestly confusing.
But yea thanks for the responce.

Excog is a passive heal. Passive skills, whether damage or heals dont display the same as active skills. Basically, DoTs and HoTs don't show crits with the giant number and !, they just have a bigger number.

Also, I personally wouldn't recommend using Recitation on Excog, you get more mileage out of using it on Adloquium instead. The 3 effects of Adlo wind up being 1050 potency combined, whereas Excog is only 800.

[Billythepancake]

Excog is a passive heal. Passive skills, whether damage or heals dont display the same as active skills. Basically, DoTs and HoTs don't show crits with the giant number and !, they just have a bigger number.

Also, I personally wouldn't recommend using Recitation on Excog, you get more mileage out of using it on Adloquium instead. The 3 effects of Adlo wind up being 1050 potency combined, whereas Excog is only 800.

The biggest advantage to recitation excog is that it doesn't cost a single GCD and you can spend the aetherflow on energy drain, or any ability, instead. The only time I use recitation on adlo over excog is one instance in e4s for a double tank buster and my tank needs the shield more than the hp. In every other instance, recitation excog will heal plenty, and I get more DPS out of it.

[Eloah]

The biggest advantage to recitation excog is that it doesn't cost a single GCD and you can spend the aetherflow on energy drain, or any ability, instead. The only time I use recitation on adlo over excog is one instance in e4s for a double tank buster and my tank needs the shield more than the hp. In every other instance, recitation excog will heal plenty, and I get more DPS out of it.

Ah yes the Meta, how dare I go against it.

[Leidiriv]

Excog is a passive heal. Passive skills, whether damage or heals dont display the same as active skills. Basically, DoTs and HoTs don't show crits with the giant number and !, they just have a bigger number.

Also, I personally wouldn't recommend using Recitation on Excog, you get more mileage out of using it on Adloquium instead. The 3 effects of Adlo wind up being 1050 potency combined, whereas Excog is only 800.

If you want to compare them fully, let's compare the crit multipliers and all the gains of the skills in question. Given current normal crit values, SCH can expect an approximate crit multiplier of 1.5x.

So if we've got a prepull Adlo + in-fight Reci Excog + the tick of Fey Union you get, plus let's say another Aetherflow heal is needed and you happen to have a charge left thanks to Reci Excog and you use Sacred Soil, you've got the shield's potency of 375 (chance to crit and approximately triple the shield), plus the ~1200 potency of the guaranteed Excog crit, plus the 560 potency of Fey Union (400 base potency per tick, pet abilities scale at 70% of player abilities), plus the 5 ticks of Soil over its duration (if the tank plays nice you get the guaranteed instant tick when you set the ability down) for 500/600 potency, for a minimum total potency of 2355/2455. Not counting the 10% mitigation of Soil ofc.

So let's compare that to the Reci Adlo + in-fight Excog, + the tick of Fey Union, assuming a similar prepull shield. At that point you've got the 1125 potency shield, 800 potency from Excog, and 280 potency from Fey Union, for a minimum total potency of 2205.

In conclusion, Recitation has far more value than just "guarantees a Critlo".

[Eloah]

If you want to compare them fully, let's compare the crit multipliers and all the gains of the skills in question. Given current normal crit values, SCH can expect an approximate crit multiplier of 1.5x.

So if we've got a prepull Adlo + in-fight Reci Excog + the tick of Fey Union you get, plus let's say another Aetherflow heal is needed and you happen to have a charge left thanks to Reci Excog and you use Sacred Soil, you've got the shield's potency of 375 (chance to crit and approximately triple the shield), plus the ~1200 potency of the guaranteed Excog crit, plus the 560 potency of Fey Union (400 base potency per tick, pet abilities scale at 70% of player abilities), plus the 5 ticks of Soil over its duration (if the tank plays nice you get the guaranteed instant tick when you set the ability down) for 500/600 potency, for a minimum total potency of 2355/2455. Not counting the 10% mitigation of Soil ofc.

So let's compare that to the Reci Adlo + in-fight Excog, + the tick of Fey Union, assuming a similar prepull shield. At that point you've got the 1125 potency shield, 800 potency from Excog, and 280 potency from Fey Union, for a minimum total potency of 2205.

In conclusion, Recitation has far more value than just "guarantees a Critlo".

These threads just make my heads hurt after a while.

Also, I don't want this thread to get anymore off track, but why do your calculations include Sacred Soil in one but not the other, and why does one appear to have a 560/400 Fey Union and the other only a 280. The only variances that should exist in your examples should be the guaranteed crit from Recitation. Now I am not saying that the combined potencies for a crit Excog can't be greater than a crit Adlo if you combine it with other things, but the two examples you gave seem a bit skewed.

[Brandedblade]

Excog not having the "!" marker needs to be patched in then. That's honestly confusing.
But yea thanks for the responce.

It probably has to do with the way the spell is coded. Excog still tends to be one of your better options to use Recitation on regardless.

[Mhaeric]

Just hit lv80 SCH, questions:

1. When you Summon Seraph, can you combine the effects of Seraphic Veil and Consolation? But I heard S. Veil just targets one person?

2. Can you combine a bunch of effects together? EX: Succor, Seraphic Veil, and Consolation?

3. Recitation: Since this makes stuff auto crit, does it not work on Excog? I tried it once on myself but it didn't crit.

1. Consolation and Seraphic Veil apply the same shield buff in the same way that Succor and Adloquium apply the same shield buff, so they don't stack. Seraphic Veil is just Embrace with a shield, so you don't even have to worry about micromanaging it at all. Consolation effectively replaces Fey Blessing and is used in an identical manner. Unless I know I want to save her for a specific mechanic, I tend to use Seraph on cooldown and use both Consolation casts during each Seraph's duration because free shields are free shields. And you get enough of a window of opportunity to use both charges that you can pretty easily work it so that you don't interfere with Seraphic Veil, and even if it does it's only at most 300 potency on one target that's lost.

2. You can stack up to three shield effects on someone with one shield from each of these categories:
- Galvanize: the base shield of Adloquium, Succor. This is the only shield that can be spread to nearby targets via Deployment Tactics.
- Catalyze: the critical hit portion of Adloquium.
- Seraphic Veil: Consolation and Seraphic Veil.

Bonus fact: Galvanize and Nocturnal Field are the only 2 shields that don't stack with each other. All other shielding effects do stack so you could conceivably have up to 5 shielding effects. For example, if you somehow managed to get shields from a Scholar, White Mage and a Diurnal Astrologian you could potentially have Galvanize, Catalyze, Seraphic Veil, Divine Benison, and Nocturnal Intersection all in effect on a single target. Obviously that's not likely to ever happen during regular gameplay, but it's still fun!

3. Recitation's crit effect does work with Excogitation. It doesn't display as a crit, but I'm pretty sure that's standard for abilities that exist as a buff or debuff on a target. E.g. when dots or regens crit they too don't have the exclamation point or larger text. That said, I feel it is much more effective to use it on Adloquium in most cases due to a critical Excogitation being much more likely than a critical Adloquium to end up as overhealing. Recitation + Excogitation makes for a quick and decent emergency heal, however, if other emergency healing options aren't available. I rarely find this to be an option, however, since I'm just using Recitation on cooldown with Adloquium.