Reasonable buff to war

[aleios_dvs]

I am not saying it should come back exactly as it was. What is this place? Cherry picking central? I want the old skill flow brought back into warrior. I don't care about the cooldowns. They're fine as they are now.

[Absimiliard]

So sayeth the 70 WAR yikes. Why should WAR deal more damage? Because it makes sense. Loladin has a shield. Its identity is mitigation. WAR has a GIANT BLOODY AXE. Its identity is caving in peoples skulls. Get that through THY thick skull. Now let's hear the reasoning you have for any other tank being the top DPS. Since you bloody well seem to have an firm unwavering opinion on this.

God jesus can we just rollback to HW jobs already. Simply make BRD not a bloody bowmage and all is well. The job design since SB has sucked so goddamn much catering towards dropkicks that QQ'd about Cleric Stance and swapping to Deliverance.

Okay.
1.) Shields were historically used for offense in tandem with whatever weapon was being wielded in the other hand - and very effectively so, I might add. Having a shield does not automatically mean someone does nothing but defend.
2.) Dark Knight uses a sword as big as - and sometimes bigger than - itself. It swings this weapon with enough to force to red mist any normal person that happened to get hit with it.
3.) Gunbreaker's weapon functions by using explosions to massively accelerate its swing speeds, superheat its blade, and even gain massively increased cutting power through edge vibration. The job also revolves heavily around finesse and skill despite having such a high impact weapon and excessively offensive fighting style.

Oh, and all three of these jobs make far more extensive use of aether than Warrior does.

[millktea]

Yes it does need potency buffs. Warrior does NO DAMAGE outside of inner release. thats 80s of you just being stupid. mediocre fell cleave is a joke. and that is all you do, other than maybe one upheaval every 30s. crit makes a massive difference to OTHER WARRIORS you are competing against (gear discrepency), the scaling is not nearly as high as you are making it out to be. it wont be a significant enough change nor is it a justification to not provide potency buffs.

if you cannot get your IR off and it needed to get off [example, the rdps is so high you cannot use it (good example is E1S adds)] you suffer a bigger loss than anyone who is not bursty. this is the issue putting all of warrior's damage in a tiny 10s window. not only that, with the existance of NF which provides ways to self heal, you do not do enough damage to compare to the other tanks as their dps is spread out. so if you miss a FC or a window for IC, you are punished brutally compared.

Warrior doesn't need any DPS buff.

Extend Storm's Eye duration is ok, it could help.

I dont understand why ppl playing warrior feel bad if they are not Tank Top DPS...I dont see the point...Its like they think that Top DPS for Warrior is a must...when it doesn't make any sense. Maybe is because War used to be tank Top DPS in old expansions like Stormblood or Heavensward? i dont know.

Warrior was only top tank dps in Stormblood. Warrior and Dark Knight were competitive in dps. only paladin stood no chance. it does make sense. Paladin offers a massive opportunity in rDPS gains with the toolkit for utility. warrior only has shake it off, which costs resources. However, this means Dark Knight needed a bit more as it too didnt have as much ultility.

storm's eye being bumped 40s is not just "ok", it would make a massive difference and will definitely be a dps gain. there are times you have to spam eye twice just to make sure it doesnt fall off before IR. No other tank needs to prepare a self-buff like eye before their burst phase. this often at times can just push back your burst due to boss jumps or mechanics and costs the warrior synergy with the party. this isn't just some "okay it could help", this is something that will help.

[millktea]

Vengeance potency should be added to WAR's abilities. If it adds about 165-220 potency per two minutes, add some potency to eye and path to make up for that.

At 200 potency Onslaught does more DPS than a fell cleave. Fell cleave is a 590 potency move at 50 gauge and 3 onslaughts is 60 gauge at 600 potency. However, Fell cleave costs a GCD and onslaught does not. This puts Onslaught at a potency gain over fell cleave.

WAR really doesn't need potency buffs. Just QoL buffs. DRK needs potency buffs if anything.

if you made onslaught do more damage, then it would be a dps loss if you did not use it. it being low makes the gapcloser essentially for free, which gives warrior far more mobility than the other tanks. buff upheaval and add more ogcds. warrior needs at least ONE MORE. if anything, that is what IC should have been.

warrior needs both. but it also needs potency nerfs (Fell Cleave and possibly Inner Chaos as well).

war needs animation buffs. Do not call it a new ability and not even provide it with a unique animation. they need to buff Holmgang by removing the bind to the enemy.

Storm eye seems fine buff but that seems more like a quality of life change than a buff. Vengeance would just force WAR to be MT as it kinda already does with its damage tied to it, if you have a WAR OT you are losing damage. Inner chaos doesn't come up enough for this to be a signifcant buff to their numbers so it wouldn't be much of a change.
Making onslaught better would be nice, but how the job flows you don't onslaught unless you have to, during IR, or if you somehow need to dump beast gauge. Onslaught would need to be more of a DPS gain than Fell cleave for players to use it. Upheavel works because its a signicantly higher scaling with beast guage and damage vs fell cleave.

you can just swap. you have provoke and shirk. simple solution.

They are not going to buff damage of any of the tanks, just some deffensive stuff.
It is their statement from the live letter.

SE says a lot of things. That doesn't mean they actually stay true to their word or follow what they say. Before the current expac came out, they acknowledged that warrior is the MT and that they wanted to make it so there were two MTs and two OTs, and look what happened? a new tank was a MISTAKE.

[Shurrikhan]

Oh, and all three of these jobs make far more extensive use of aether than Warrior does.

Warrior literally raises dust storms around itself from emitted aether. That Warrior may use it less than the other tanks doesn't mean that Warrior would gain nothing of significance from their use of it. Nor should "use of aether" alone explain relatively poorer tank performance.

warrior only has shake it off, which costs resources.

No, it doesn't. It will still do 12% target HP absorption (greater than Divine Veil on co-tank, about even on melee, and only a bit worse on everyone else, atop affecting self while Divine Veil will not and stackable with ToB and TBN for 57% HP absorption) on a 25% shorter CD and without a healing activation requirement even if you feed it no resources. You also can feed it only the last 1 to .5 seconds of said buffs if you wish as their remaining duration does not matter at all. A well-used Nascent Flash provides more restoration than Intervention does mitigation except vs. one-shot mechanics and self-heals in the bargain. Both of those WAR tools are technically superior to PLD's. WAR just lacks Passage of Arms; that's it. As does GNB and DRK, who instead offer every 90 seconds nearly the same strength against raid damage as Passage of Arms does every 2 minutes despite the latter requiring no movement or actions over its use.

PLD offers the least free combined HPS/APS to its co-tank over time and its one additional raid mitigation skill is painfully situational. Aurora + HoS, TBN, and NF all outperform Intervention (the worst on-demand cross-mitigation skill) and Cover (a skill which deals no mitigation yet costs an Intervention or Shelltron).

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Fair enough. However...

WAR hasn't really changed that much since Stormblood. If you're finding it boring now, then it almost certainly was boring then, too.

This... is badly erroneous or oversimplified, depending on how obtuse you intend to be. We might as well say that DRK without MP, lifesteal, Blood skills, or shadow aesthetics would still be just the same as when it had those things.

By all means, if you didn't enjoy the job before, don't feel compelled to give it even a fair shake now. But let's not call what was drastically changed for the less involved or entertaining for a significant number of players "unchanged".

[Lyth]

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

WAR hasn't really changed that much since Stormblood. If you're finding it boring now, then it almost certainly was boring then, too. The only difference is that it has gone from being boring and mandatory, to being boring and optional. And that, my friends, is a true quality of life improvement.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Divine Veil has a 90 second recast now.

[Absimiliard]

Warrior literally raises dust storms around itself from emitted aether. That Warrior may use it less than the other tanks doesn't mean that Warrior would gain nothing of significance from their use of it. Nor should "use of aether" alone explain relatively poorer tank performance.

My response was to a post about job identity, part of which is a job's lore and the nature of its abilities beyond just their numbers. Part of their reasoning for warriors deserving to be top DPS was that they carry a giant axe. If having a giant axe qualifies as a valid argument, then I would posit that pointing out the job's lack of aetherial manipulation as compared to the other tanks should be a permissible counterpoint. I am unsure as to why that poster believed their possession of a giant axe justified giving them higher DPS than the other tanks, however. Regardless, my response to them was largely tongue-in-cheek, as there is no valid justification for giving warriors higher damage than the other tanks with current design accounted for, particularly if we consider that GNB exists.

In any case, to reply to the rest of the thread: I do not feel that warriors are currently disadvantaged. They just aren't the dominating force they were before. The other tanks certainly deserve their chance to shine, and the excellent balance SE has struck between them at this point in the game has provided just such an opportunity.

[Shurrikhan]

My response was to a post about job identity, part of which is a job's lore and the nature of its abilities beyond just their numbers. Part of their reasoning for warriors deserving to be top DPS was that they carry a giant axe. If having a giant axe qualifies as a valid argument, then I would posit that pointing out the job's lack of aetherial manipulation as compared to the other tanks should be a permissible counterpoint. I am unsure as to why that poster believed their possession of a giant axe justified giving them higher DPS than the other tanks, however. Regardless, my response to them was largely tongue-in-cheek, as there is no valid justification for giving warriors higher damage than the other tanks with current design accounted for, particularly if we consider that GNB exists.

In any case, to reply to the rest of the thread: I do not feel that warriors are currently disadvantaged. They just aren't the dominating force they were before. The other tanks certainly deserve their chance to shine, and the excellent balance SE has struck between them at this point in the game has provided just such an opportunity.

Ahh, I see. Sorry I missed the (deserved) off-handedness of the response.

Personally, if there were other things at nearly the value of rDPS, I wouldn't mind seeing Warrior be the "skipped utility; more wham-wham" tank. But I also think it'd waste opportunities that'd be at least as interesting in the form of Warcry-type raid utilities or the like, as its own answer to the utility capacity of other tanks alongside its similarly equal damage.

Nonetheless, I agree that as things stand now, there is neither space nor reason for an intentionally "lead rDPS" tank, exactly. I'd also agree that number-wise, WAR's position is nearly fine. There are some parts of its internal balance and significant losses to its iconic capacities (e.g. lifesteal, which it specialized in prior to DRK) that I'd love to see patched, but that's a separate issue. I'd also personally prefer that GNB had just a bit more utility in place of a smidgen of its damage. Heck, I'd prefer that DRK's Living Shadow was a bit more responsive and Blood Weapon effectively lasted almost a half-second longer -- which might well be enough to push it up to PLD and GNB already, despite arguably having the most OT APS/HPS of the bunch (which might make it then be a tad too powerful, in which case I'd be fine with a 20% TBN, as that'd also be more future-proofed against future issues by which it'd be near impossible to pop in certain dungeons). But for the most part I'm pretty happy with tank balance this time around.

[ForteNightshade]

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

WAR hasn't really changed that much since Stormblood. If you're finding it boring now, then it almost certainly was boring then, too. The only difference is that it has gone from being boring and mandatory, to being boring and optional. And that, my friends, is a true quality of life improvement.

Except it isn't equality. Warrior is straight up inferior to the other three tanks, albeit only slightly. It has zero buff synergy due to guaranteed Direct Hi Crits, it has a weaker overall defensive kit than Paladin and flirts with being dead last in DPS. Add to that Onslaught abruptly became the worst gap closer (baring its range) and Storm's Eye, and it's hard to call Warrior being equal.