Reasonable buff to war

[ForteNightshade]

Warrior has probably the best kit at keeping itself alive with a decent party buff that grants an AoE shield instead of magic damage only. Warrior damage is only slightly behind the other three tanks by less than 200 dps. It's not reasonable to ask for a damage buff to Warrior because any damage buff would just make it the best tank again and YoshiP already stated he did not want Warrior to be the best and he does not intend to make changes to tank damage.

Except it doesn't. First and foremost, virtually every raid wide AoE in the game is magic damage. Therefore, it's rather moot. Dark Knight has far better defensive options; Paladin is better as an OT and all three tanks do higher damage. Now that isn't to say Warrior is bad. It isn't. But it doesn't excel in any area beyond HP recovery—which isn't nearly as valuable given how much healers can heal for. Furthermore, Warrior does not benefit from half the raid buffs the other tanks do, and is prone to much bigger losses due to how Inner Chaos, IR and Fell Cleave work. No one is asking Warrior be the best tank again, but as it currently stands, it's the worst in almost every category. Again, not by a large margin but enough that some small tweaks would go a long way.

[BarretOblivion]

Warrior has probably the best kit at keeping itself alive with a decent party buff that grants an AoE shield instead of magic damage only. Warrior damage is only slightly behind the other three tanks by less than 200 dps. It's not reasonable to ask for a damage buff to Warrior because any damage buff would just make it the best tank again and YoshiP already stated he did not want Warrior to be the best and he does not intend to make changes to tank damage.

No, PLD has the best kit at keeping itself alive. Its called clemency. WAR dies as soon as it can't target someone with Nascent flash which is already a 'meh' heal. Soon PLD will have almost the same mitigation as WAR when we get even better shields with more block. WAR is pretty darn worthless outside of specific fights that throw alot of forced tank swap tankbusters. Eden Prime? Don't use WAR. E2S? (can't remember the name right now of the boss XP) WAR is clunky at best in there. Leviathan? Well WAR/DRK combo is great there but... vengeance is a dead skill so its going to deal even less damage than it could in any other fight. Titan? F no. Bring a PLD/DRK in there or even a GNB, WAR is straight up trash in that fight basically requiring much more work than you need in it.

WAR doesn't need a potency buff... it needs a rework. Holy crap does it play like dog crap outside of IR, its the worst feeling tank job by a long shot even with DRK's clunkiness.

[Jukebox12]

I like how bo one quoted me when these comments are or was a little mean now there just mean. Dang! boys and girls

[Jukebox12]

Someone must love being called mean

[Marc-Vigar]

WAR only needs 4 things:

1. Onslaught costing no Beast Gauge and usable outside of battle.

2. Another combo line starting from Heavy Swing to make the rotation more engaging, could finish with Storm's Eye so 1 DPS/heal combo and 1 buff combo (same as DRG)

3. More skills, specifically oGCDs to weave inbetween GCD, the rotation is boring as f*** and Upheaval costing BG is awful, remove BG costs from abilities and give us maybe another long cooldown BG finisher.

4. MAKE OVERPOWER BE CIRCULAR AREA SKILL FOR F***S SAKE.

[NyneSwordz]

WAR only needs 4 things:

1. Onslaught costing no Beast Gauge and usable outside of battle.

2. Another combo line starting from Heavy Swing to make the rotation more engaging, could finish with Storm's Eye so 1 DPS/heal combo and 1 buff combo (same as DRG)

3. More skills, specifically oGCDs to weave inbetween GCD, the rotation is boring as f*** and Upheaval costing BG is awful, remove BG costs from abilities and give us maybe another long cooldown BG finisher.

4. MAKE OVERPOWER BE CIRCULAR AREA SKILL FOR F***S SAKE.

Overpower being conal aoe and mythril tempest 360 feels clunky. I hate having to constantly move to make sure i catch all the monsters in the cone.

It usef to be sorta okay, but in shb there seemd to be more monsters when u pull wall to wall than before. The large number causes the monsters to sorta disperse around me in such a wide fashion that sometimes it feels impossible to hit all of them with overpower.

[Izyla]

Overpower being conal aoe and mythril tempest 360 feels clunky. I hate having to constantly move to make sure i catch all the monsters in the cone.

It usef to be sorta okay, but in shb there seemd to be more monsters when u pull wall to wall than before. The large number causes the monsters to sorta disperse around me in such a wide fashion that sometimes it feels impossible to hit all of them with overpower.

I just pick up mobs with tempest tbh, when done running I'll do the proper combo.

It makes it much less of a hassle but sadly no extending storm's eye during this time.

[BarretOblivion]

Most of the savages fights aren't designed well with WAR in mind. The main exception to this is E3S where WAR is the best tank to bring into it. I can't comment on E4S as I haven't gone in yet (just cleared 3 yesterday) but baised off the numbers WAR isn't perfered in there likely because of tank swapping.
Here is the thing, WAR is kinda designed to be the MT at all times. Yes, they can OT but their effectiveness is reduced when doing so.
Reasons:
1) Vengeance still has damage tied to it. It might not be much but with IR affecting it as well as in the long run if you use it cooldown unless you need it for TBs you should be using it. Getting about 6-7 vengeance off comes to around 1320 potency or more if you are using it on cooldown not counting DH/Crits. Of course this can only be used on physical attacks so Leviathan ignores this. The problem is every fight is designed around tank swapping and if the WAR isn't getting auto attacked, well vengeance damage is kinda dead.
2) Nascent flash is a better MT skill than an OT skill. The 50% reduction on your co-tank makes even setting up a beefy nascent flash heal not noticable to maybe heal a boss basic attack, its good for you, but if your the OT the heal probably doesn't affect you as you'll be at full HP (except again Leviathan where you both are getting auto'd so its always good to use it on cooldown there). With a weak heal you have to look at its mitigation which is the lowest of all tanks outside of naked PLD interventions, but PLD has the option of using a cooldown they don't need to buff it to the highest giving it flexibility.
3) Raw Intiution is the best MT skill identity cooldown in the game. Simple as that. 20% mitigation on a 25 second cooldown with no need to worry about job guage or resources? Yeah its the best for TBs making it easy for a WAR to surive a tank buster with a good chunk of HP when paried with another cooldown (if you even need to).
4) Holmgang is still a thing. However, the issue with this raiding tier is 3/4 of the fights tie a required tank swap debuff to the Tankbusters now. Leviathan is however a short debuff so holmgang lets the OT not worry about requiring to share Tankbusters (except 1). E2S doesn't have a debuff tied to it but both tanks will always get hit by the tankbuster so using an OT skill during that on your other tank isn't advised... except for PLD because intervention works well with those kinds of tankbusters mitigating the most damage by far of all the tanks.


WAR isn't designed well for this raid tier I would argue outside of Leviathan and even there one of its damaging skills is gimped because its all magical. Its a small problem but it adds up when its personal DPS isn't very good and personal mitigation doesn't matter too much when you are forced to tank swap anyways.

[BarretOblivion]

So to follow up on the previous post what buffs does WAR need?
1) Nascent flash buff. Give it 75% of total healing you do to yourself shared with your target instead of 50% and increase the time on it so you can fit one more GCD in it.
2) Remove the potency on vengeance and slightly buff other skills so you are basically 'moving' that potency so it doesn't feel bad when WAR isn't MTing.
3) WAR needs improvements to the flow of the job. The job feels like crap to play when IR is on cooldown while all other tank jobs outside of their "burst phases" still having things to manage and do. WAR does not besides trying to hold on fell cleaves for raid buffs or IC for raid buffs. WAR doesn't scale well with DRG and BRD buffs because of the DH/CRIT guarenteed so if you are running them WAR falls behind all other tanks.

(Personal request)
Rework the DH/CRIT identity of the job. I don't like it and it makes melding WAR akward when all other tanks meld in one way (Skill speed requirements is the exception) but WAR has to be melded differently. DH? You don't do that on WAR and right now DH is the best to meld in all other tanks until the end of this tier with BiS because there is so much crit on them. It makes swapping between tank jobs expensive for an unnessesary reason.

[Tex_Mex]

1) Nascent flash buff. Give it 75% of total healing you do to yourself shared with your target instead of 50% and increase the time on it so you can fit one more GCD in it.

I don't mind this at all. Giving WAR some more self heal is not really a big deal to me at all. Nascent only being a 10% damage reduction as well warrants some more healing for the target too.

2) Remove the potency on vengeance and slightly buff other skills so you are basically 'moving' that potency so it doesn't feel bad when WAR isn't MTing.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The entire point of so many of the ShB tank changes was to make all tanks equally (or near equally) viable at both the MT and OT roles. Vengeance is the only tank ability in the game that rewards the player with damage for being attacked. (TBN is close, but you can use it on other targets and it is only DPS neutral when it breaks, so I don't consider it here) It honestly feels like this ability just fell through the cracks and should have been changed along with everything else.

3) WAR needs improvements to the flow of the job. The job feels like crap to play when IR is on cooldown while all other tank jobs outside of their "burst phases" still having things to manage and do. WAR does not besides trying to hold on fell cleaves for raid buffs or IC for raid buffs. WAR doesn't scale well with DRG and BRD buffs because of the DH/CRIT guarenteed so if you are running them WAR falls behind all other tanks.

I do agree that it is pretty boring to play. The removal of stance dancing really took a lot of the complexity of the job away. I would be fine with adding some more oGCD skills, a DoT, or really anything else to add a bit more to the job. See below for my thoughts on secondary stats between classes.

Rework the DH/CRIT identity of the job. I don't like it and it makes melding WAR akward when all other tanks meld in one way (Skill speed requirements is the exception) but WAR has to be melded differently. DH? You don't do that on WAR and right now DH is the best to meld in all other tanks until the end of this tier with BiS because there is so much crit on them. It makes swapping between tank jobs expensive for an unnessesary reason.

I have to disagree with you on this point. I do like to see all the big numbers during my IR window and the only way to remove the different effect that secondary stats have on the job would be to rework this mechanic completely. It is a bummer that you can't reuse the same gear as the other tanks, but this is a small price to pay for maintaining class identity.