Issue with TBN

[Nedkel]

So, people claiming it's fine that TBN can't mitigate fluff. Can you tell me what exactly makes TBN good then?

It's not really any stronger than the other tanks mitigation tools on tank busters (120k damage tank buster would be mitigated about 24k by sheltron while TBN gives about 29k shield). It has a shorter recast, but what good is that when you can't actually use it in that time?

You can say it's not a problem that TBN is less readily available than the other tanks mitigation, but why should it not be as readily available when it offers no decent advantages for it?

Cooldown of 15 seconds.
And that it does allow healer to get a breath of air.

Its effectively 25% HP more which scales with mitigation we have.
30k hp which will by increased by 20% by a trait is 36k.
Now how much do you need to receive in damage in order to match this number with standard mitigation tool?
Lets say its 20%, you will have to take 150% of your total HP in order for your mitigation tool to match the number of effective health TBN provides for DRK.

You will have to literally get yourself killed 1.5 times so the 20% of mitigation you have will be able to mitigate 36K from enemies, and i do not even count additional 20% into equation from a trait because it would make even a bigger number, you will have to take 225k damage, 187.5% of your HP in order to match TBN effective health.

This what makes TBN so powerful tool to play with, it is upfront HP mitigation which scales really well with other % mitigation tools.

DPS wise, TBN is at best neutral. There is no "reward" at all.

However, if we want something less straightforward than a Crit buff, we could have Dark Arts only last for a set duration (Like 10s) and, while Dark Arts is active, you gain a slight speed buff. Of course, Dark Arts will wear off if you use Edge/Flood so you'd have to make sure you don't need to refresh Darkside during the duration of Dark Arts.

You give your healer a chance to dish out 1 or two DPS moves during TBN, IT IS A DPS GAIN but its not your personal dps, but a team dps.

[ReiMakoto]

So, people claiming it's fine that TBN can't mitigate fluff. Can you tell me what exactly makes TBN good then?

It's not really any stronger than the other tanks mitigation tools on tank busters (120k damage tank buster would be mitigated about 24k by sheltron while TBN gives about 29k shield). It has a shorter recast, but what good is that when you can't actually use it in that time?

You can say it's not a problem that TBN is less readily available than the other tanks mitigation, but why should it not be as readily available when it offers no decent advantages for it?

What you fail to understand here is the damage formula, buffs stack multiplicatively, so using cds on top of your base 20% mitigation from the trait has diminishing returns, whereas tbn has no diminishing returns as it gives an overshield not flat mitigation, making it better

[Reynhart]

Which other tanks have a 25% shield on a 15s cooldown exactly?

The difference between having +25% HP and reducing damage by 20% is minimal, and let's not talk about how much WAR can heal himself and a party member during Nascent Flash.
And the 15s CD is irrelevant when it comes to planning TBN to make sure it breaks every time.

You give your healer a chance to dish out 1 or two DPS moves during TBN, IT IS A DPS GAIN but its not your personal dps, but a team dps.

If TBN actually gives your healer any room to spare 1 or 2 GCD dpsing instead of healing, then other mitigation tools from tank do the same, but they don't risk losing their personal DPS.

[Nedkel]

The difference between having +25% HP and reducing damage by 20% is minimal, and let's not talk about how much WAR can heal himself and a party member during Nascent Flash.
And the 15s CD is irrelevant when it comes to planning TBN to make sure it breaks every time.

Its giant.

With 20% hp you have to take damage equivalent of 150/187.5% of your health in order to make the effective health TBN gives upfront.

[Arsthan]

What do you people not get on the fact that TBN is a "High risk, no reward" move. That is not okay. You can make it to cost MP, sure; but tell me this: why would you use the shield in the first place when you can use EoS upfront and mitigate a tank buster with Heart of Stone, Intervention, Nascent Flash from your co tank. Your job as a tank is to survive a tank buster with decent HP in case you take another auto attack to your face afterwards, not mitigate it to zero. All of this "but you safe your healer a GCD!" is straight up BS too when most of the healing is done via oGCDs.

So why is it okay for TBN to cost MP, being either a DPS loss or a DPS neutral move depending on when you do, when you can just go with EoS instead? In any case, a shield is not a freaking reward, that might be the case if you were a healer/DPS, but we're talking about a tank. Why should be defense tied to DPS when there's literally no pay off? Either make it cost no MP or make it a DPS gain, one of the other. No, it's not okay to be DPS neutral if you risk using when you never really have to with now all tanks having off tank skill.

[DJMau]

I feel like the root of this argument boils down to TBN actually requiring more forethought than just 'push the button and I'm safe' like the other short CD abilities.

[DJMau]

And I got zipped by a post proving my theory

[Nedkel]

What do you people not get on the fact that TBN is a "High risk, no reward" move. That is not okay. You can make it to cost MP, sure; but tell me this: why would you use the shield in the first place when you can use EoS upfront and mitigate a tank buster with Heart of Stone, Intervention, Nascent Flash from your co tank. Your job as a tank is to survive a tank buster with decent HP in case you take another auto attack to your face afterwards, not mitigate it to zero. All of this "but you safe your healer a GCD!" is straight up BS too when most of the healing is done via oGCDs.

So why is it okay for TBN to cost MP, being either a DPS loss or a DPS neutral move depending on when you do, when you can just go with EoS instead? In any case, a shield is not a freaking reward, that might be the case if you were a healer/DPS, but we're talking about a tank. Why should be defense tied to DPS when there's literally no pay off? Either make it cost no MP or make it a DPS gain, one of the other. No, it's not okay to be DPS neutral if you risk using when you never really have to with now all tanks having off tank skill.

But its still a reward.
You mitigate damage, your healer doesnt have to heal you and could do some dps. A single ability contributed to the party dps indirectly through the healer, if it breaks then its even more efficient than using that MP on Edge of shadow.
Healer does not have unlimited amout of oGCD to heal everyone and a tank.

[ReiMakoto]

What do you people not get on the fact that TBN is a "High risk, no reward" move. That is not okay. You can make it to cost MP, sure; but tell me this: why would you use the shield in the first place when you can use EoS upfront and mitigate a tank buster with Heart of Stone, Intervention, Nascent Flash from your co tank. Your job as a tank is to survive a tank buster with decent HP in case you take another auto attack to your face afterwards, not mitigate it to zero. All of this "but you safe your healer a GCD!" is straight up BS too when most of the healing is done via oGCDs.

So why is it okay for TBN to cost MP, being either a DPS loss or a DPS neutral move depending on when you do, when you can just go with EoS instead? In any case, a shield is not a freaking reward, that might be the case if you were a healer/DPS, but we're talking about a tank. Why should be defense tied to DPS when there's literally no pay off? Either make it cost no MP or make it a DPS gain, one of the other. No, it's not okay to be DPS neutral if you risk using when you never really have to with now all tanks having off tank skill.

The reward is mitigating way better than the other tank instant mitigations, and stacking better with buffs from your co-tank because of the damage formula.

[smol_cofe]

TBN is awesome and I wouldn't want it changed at all, in case a dev is watching all the DRK changes threads lol.