Issue with TBN

[ArianeEwah]

Separate defensive abilites from DPS resources!

SE did the first step by removing Shield Swipe in 5.0.

For everyone who doesn't know what Shield Swipe was, here a summary: Shield Swipe was an ability off the GCD with 100/150 potency on a 15 second CD. Everytime an attack successfully blocked, SW would proc and was available for use for the next 5 seconds. Sheltron (and Bulwark [+60% block rate]) was used to proc Shield Swipe for extra damage. But that would weaken PLD's mitigation, so they had to re-think whether it was worth spending gauge on a low damage attack or save it for a high damage attack, but lose DPS due to Shield Swipe not proc-in'.

With Shield Swipe gone PLD can use their gauge purely for mitigation, just as it should be.

However, this rule doesn't apply to The Blackest Night. TBN is tied to mana, and mana is a valuable resource for our damage skills - Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow. The cost is just the same as your damage skills - 3000 mana (or 30% of your mana pool).
On lvl 74 DRK gets the enhanced version of Edge/Flood of Darkness in form of Edge/Flood of Shadow.
[For simple math purpose, I will calculate single target only - Edge of D/S]
So, 3000 mana is worth 350 potency below level 74. On 74 and above it's 500 potency.
In 4.x one Dark Arts gave us 140 additional potency on most skills, its cost was roughly 25% of your mana pool (2400/9480), but still same as TBN.
Due to 5.0 mana regeneration revision, let's say it is equal to 3000 mana now (and to keep it simple). If our shield didn't break, we effectively lost 140 potency.
Now in 5.0, our shield TBN got stronger (from 20% on self/10% on others to 25% on all). Thus breaking our shield got even more difficult. In addition - as stated above - our new "Dark Arts" skill got buffed to 350/500 potency.
Not only did it get harder to break the shield, but the punishment for not breaking it got harder, too.

tl;dr: DRK loses up to 500 potency if the shield doesn't break!

TBN should not cost DPS!

SE needs to separate TBN from our damage skills or change it, so we don't lose damage by using our mitigation tools.

[ReiMakoto]

If youre not breaking tbn youre using it wrong

[ArianeEwah]

If youre not breaking tbn youre using it wrong

If you are using TBN just to break it, you lose mitigation. A tank not using mitigation just to keep up damage is bad design, and should not happen.

[TheRealQuah]

If you are using TBN just to break it, you lose mitigation. A tank not using mitigation just to keep up damage is bad design, and should not happen.

This is actually the opposite of what's happening. If TBN breaks you are not losing any mitigation. If you TBN and it doesn't break and drops off, then you are losing whatever shield you had left.

[ArianeEwah]

This is actually the opposite of what's happening. If TBN breaks you are not losing any mitigation. If you TBN and it doesn't break and drops off, then you are losing whatever shield you had left.

Let me rephrase: If you are not using TBN because you doubt it will break, you lose mitgation! And as I said, if you refrain from using mitigation as a tank, then there is something wrong.

I have no issue with it breaking, it's the cases when it doesn't. And they occur more often than you might think. (Even for high-end players.)

[TheRealQuah]

Let me rephrase: If you are not using TBN because you doubt it will break, you lose mitgation! And as I said, if you refrain from using mitigation as a tank, then there is something wrong.

I have no issue with it breaking, it's the cases when it doesn't. And they occur more often than you might think. (Even for high-end players.)

So I take it that you are using Dark Mind, Rampart, Shadow Wall, and Missionary on cooldown. Because by that logic if you don't, then you are wasting mitigation.

[Seraphor]

If you are using TBN just to break it, you lose mitigation. A tank not using mitigation just to keep up damage is bad design, and should not happen.

But if the damage isn't enough to break TBN in the first place, then using TBN would be OVERmitigating.
WHM can spam Cure 2 on you if they want to but then that's OVERhealing.


TBN is a brilliant skill just the way it is, the only change I'd want made to it would be extending it's duration slightly, to make it more likely to pop in dungeon pulls.

[TheRealQuah]

Yeah, if TBN isn't going to break, then you don't need to use it. Lets dumb jobs down even more. People keep complaining that DRK is a WAR clone now, yet they also want to remove the skills that make it unique.

[ArianeEwah]

Yeah, if TBN isn't going to break, then you don't need to use it. Lets dumb jobs down even more. People keep complaining that DRK is a WAR clone now, yet they also want to remove the skills that make it unique.

While I feel the same about DRK being a WAR clone, that doesn't change the fact that TBN is bad when it's not being used. If you are not using TBN you lose mitigation. If you use it and overmitigate you lose damage.

If the solution to this is not using TBN/mitigation, then that's bad design.

[ArianeEwah]

Ideas how to fix this issue:

• Give TBN the 4.2 Excogitation treatment: Grant us the "Dark Arts" effect "upon effect duration expiration". In other words, either the shield breaks early and grants DA, or it expires and grants DA.
• Remove its cost, and the DA effect. Increase its recast time to compensate.