I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[HyoMinPark]

So git gud scrub? Seriously, if you're doing things because you're at minimum ilvl (which is surprisingly low this expansion) and expect healers to pick up your slack on top of cleaning up your mess, then clearly you just want a carry.

Honestly, with the changes to make tanks easier to play, giving them more damage options while removing a good portion of their defensive cooldowns all while having mobs hit harder....it all makes me wonder why tanks are still being given mounts in the first place when it should be healers instead for having to do their job AND the DPSs job at the same time. I'm not saying "healers shouldn't dps", I'm saying that it should not be a requirement and that DPS players (and maybe tank players too) should git gud.

With current Savage, there is no option to “git gud”. Players simply don’t have the gear to pass the enrage if the healers sit on their thumbs the entire fight. It’s to be expected when players attempt the content Week 1, because we are all at minimum item level right now. Not by choice—we just haven’t gotten an opportunity to gear up since gearing is gated.

All that said, why are the DPS told to “git gud” just so healers can AFK for 50% or more of the fight?

[Connor]

I'm not saying "healers shouldn't dps", I'm saying that it should not be a requirement and that DPS players (and maybe tank players too) should git gud.

I get what you’re saying, healers shouldn’t feel pressure to DPS in normal content because ultimately it’s unnecessary. In Savage progression though, it’s through maximising DPS to clear the content where you couldn’t if you just left it to the DPS that a healer ‘gits gud’ in the first place in current high end content. It’s unfortunate, but this trend won’t ever go away, so healers in high end content will always be expected to contribute the DPS required to avoid enrage in savage content shortly after release, and should go into the fights with this expectation. There isn’t anything else for healers to contribute or maximise except DPS anyway once they meet the minuscule healing requirements and plan out healing ability usage anyway

[ForteNightshade]

Its interesting you mentioned wall to wall, that's also a problem in the game. It is not an intended mechanic, otherwise why not just have 60 enemies appear in one room. I think we need to wall off every single room, lower the potency and get back to basics.

They tried this with a few Heavensward dungeons. It didn't last because people kept complaining how boring things were. As someone who plays healers, I want wall to wall pulls otherwise I'm bored since there's almost nothing to heal. I'm just a glorified DPS—more than I already am.

[Nomuno]

despite what everyone keeps saying, his statement was in CONTEXT of SCHs shielding, and not contributing to healing.
So it was a comparison to "lesser healing+ shielding" vs "healing focused" types of healers.
he felt the devs should focus on designing healers mostly on being able to heal.

NA players mistook that to mean, heal over DPS.

Yea, just NA players...smdh

[Hawklaser]

"Get gud" doesn't work here when a bunch of DPS can't even reach the DPS needed for E4S if we don't factor in healer damage. AS in the classes just aren't strong enough to get passed the enrage timer.

If you want to beat the Savage enrage timers currently, either healers need to DPS, AND be good at it - or DPS all need to be BLM/DRG/Monk

Actually that is precisely why "Get gud" applies. Bleeding edge content with minimal gear will take the full party doing everything possible to clear.

The problem isn't in the bleeding edge content, its in the normal day to day content. Which is pretty easy to surpass that bare minimum clear threshold to where the healers dps should not be necessary, yet if you go browse the tales from the DF thread you will find plenty of examples of groups that struggle to hit that point and the only real reason they clear is most dungeon bosses don't have an enrage+wipe mechanic. One of my personal favorite examples is a group that had Aenc Thon transform twice.

[HyoMinPark]

Actually that is precisely why "Get gud" applies. Bleeding edge content with minimal gear will take the full party doing everything possible to clear.

Which means healers have to contribute to damage when doing content at the minimum item level. The poster Hash_Browns was replying to was saying that DPS should “just git gud” so that healers aren’t required to DPS under some pretense that the healers are “carrying” the DPS and “picking up slack”—but that’s simply not feasible in early Savage before players get better gear. Everyone has to contribute because the party won’t make the enrage for the third and fourth fights otherwise at minimum item level. And that doesn’t mean that the healers are carrying anyone—it’s just straight up impossible without their contribution because DPS jobs aren’t powerful enough even at 100% optimized.

[Hash_Browns]

Actually that is precisely why "Get gud" applies. Bleeding edge content with minimal gear will take the full party doing everything possible to clear.

The problem isn't in the bleeding edge content, its in the normal day to day content. Which is pretty easy to surpass that bare minimum clear threshold to where the healers dps should not be necessary, yet if you go browse the tales from the DF thread you will find plenty of examples of groups that struggle to hit that point and the only real reason they clear is most dungeon bosses don't have an enrage+wipe mechanic. One of my personal favorite examples is a group that had Aenc Thon transform twice.

I'm not talking about DF PUG crap where we all realize the Black Mage has been spamming B1, and nothing else. I'm talking about the savage content.
If you want to rag, and kick all the horrible DPS in the normal mode content, be my guest, because I certainly hate dealing with tanks that don't use cooldowns, DPS that don't AOE - or have a rotation at level 80, and also healers that don't DPS.

Like it or not - healers need to DPS for the endgame content.

And if you want a breakdown of what I mean:

12,000DPS from each DPS class
7,000DPS from each tank class
6,000DPS from each healer class

That's the minimum requirement to make it through E4S enrage, with some give being the DPS spread differently. MINIMUM.

[Misutoraru]

So a fail game design
high end fight that have healer dps into account, meaning dev cant output too much damage received by the party, making less challenge content healing become a green dps where we spend more than 50% of our time dps.
When healer DPS ppl say it is not using the full kit, now the dev just turn it into the other extend, we barely using our GCD heal in any non top tier fight

[Videra]

Healer DPS will always be expected unless SE disables their DPS buttons in group content. Get used to it.

This. People who whine about 'Being forced to play two roles' when they're only expected to press one button every thirty seconds and another singular button so you don't have GCDs need to get over themselves.

[HyoMinPark]

So a fail game design
high end fight that have healer dps into account, meaning dev cant output too much damage received by the party, making less challenge content healing become a green dps where we spend more than 50% of our time dps.
When healer DPS ppl say it is not using the full kit, now the dev just turn it into the other extend, we barely using our GCD heal in any non top tier fight

It’s Week 1 Savage. That’s not a failure in game design. Yoshida has said in the past that players who attempt early Savage clears will have to rely on their healers contributing because the party does not have the cushion of better gear to push numbers. As for Ultimate, the design requiring healer DPS was intentional. It’s the hardest content in the game. Sorry that you can’t skate by doing only 50%, I guess?

While more outgoing damage would be welcome by the good healers, those who are not good healers would just complain that “content hits too hard now” and “needs to be nerfed”. This song has been sung repeatedly throughout this game’s existence.