I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[Misutoraru]

Or you know ... just accept the fact that the design of this game is different than other MMO? It's not a flaw because you don't like, it's not a flaw because "other MMO doesn't do it this way!".

I for once love this design philosophy. It requires people to be mindful of things outside of their role, instead of being just a single-minded job.

All fights in FFXIV are scripted.
All bosses will throw out mechanics in the exact same order, with the only exception being enrage timers triggering early due to slow add kills

it wasnt like it back in 2.0, Benediction have a holy 300s CD, only that + regen + Cure II (not too sure on it) is oGCD
we have stone skin, protect and we work very well with SCH
during that time even Titan HM can kill you if slightly undergear (HP pool not large enough)
only when the powercreep with il sync being so high, and more more short CD but high potency oGCD everysingle expansion
and wanting a heal focus does not mean 100% heal
there are some middle ground in this "should healer dps" drama, I am not against heal DPS when there is downtime
I am just saying I like to see we revert back abit so we arent spending more time on dps than heal.
I want healing focus just mean more time actually healing like shifting to 70% heal and 30% dps...etc
yeah may be i am some old skool, but ARR WHM is what i attached to, and now it change to something very different, just like those player who enjoy HW DRK more than any expansion.
I am not asking to completely going back to ARR style, but something slightly more majority of uptime in healing and some downtime to dps style of game play. Or make good use of buff and debuff, AST have strong potential in becoming buffing healer...etc

[SakiKojiro]

They achieve this by making DPS spells on healers just a little bit more expensive. Unless you wanna run OOM like a third of the way through the encounter you stick to healing.

Not gonna happen, though.

[Liam_Harper]

I don't understand why this is such a heated debate tbh.

All that's being asked of healers is that if no healing is required, put a DoT up and press the single damage button given to you. Why is that such an unreasonable request that it triggers endless pages of argument and resistance?

[Raven2014]

it wasnt like it back in 2.0, Benediction have a holy 300s CD, only that + regen + Cure II (not too sure on it) is oGCD

Not really, it's more like people haven't caught on the design different. I was a top ten US raid healer in WoW at the time I quit and switch to FF14. Joint an FC static and worked through coil, but my mindset was strictly a "healer only heal". Of course I immidiately noticed how little healing going out in this game. In WoW (or other MMO) there are always a constant ambient damage that needs constant heal, tanks constantly needed to be top off so they don't die to the mechanic. FF14's fight is designed with no consistent damage, but come in wave. Also, the healing potency in FF14 has always been massive in relative to the HP pools, meaning it takes less time to top someone off. So in between there is no other thing for healer to do.

Back then, when there is no healing, I cast SS on every one, and even then I still ran out of thing to do. I remember when the tank and DPS was working on the boss, I was doing emote/dance/ran around the arena "waiting" for the next mechanic to happen so I have something to heal again. And no one said anything, the thought of "maybe I should DPS with this much free time" didn't even cross my mind, and it seems didn't cross the mind of anyone else either. We were all above average so to speak, but it's little wonder why we can only clear the 3rd phase of each tier once we were stacked on gears, and even with echo, we still barely meet the enrage of the final phase. Thinking back, it's probably because the 2 healers did zero DPS, and the tanks probably didn't focus too much on DPS either. So what I am saying here is that the "design" of the content hasn't really changed since 2.0.

Alex kinda pushed healer's DPS into the spotlight, and even though it was the result of the fights were overturned, it also made people aware that "healer DPS can be a thing". In another word, what you remember wasn't a difference in design, but rather back in 2.0 the majority of the players simply hadn't caught on and played the game sub-optimally.

[Seoulstar]

Healer DPS will always be expected unless SE disables their DPS buttons in group content. Get used to it.

That's a bit of a broad statement there..as the fact it's not 100% true. Yes, it will be expected, but not from literally everyone in the community.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Yoshi simply tells players what they want to hear. Because he knows that the moment he says "yes, healers need to contribute with DPS", hell will break loose.

Look at this way. They designed a healer to do more potential DPS than a tank. Do you really think they expect you hot to use that?

[Kazrah]

"Get gud" doesn't work here when a bunch of DPS can't even reach the DPS needed for E4S if we don't factor in healer damage. AS in the classes just aren't strong enough to get passed the enrage timer.

If you want to beat the Savage enrage timers currently, either healers need to DPS, AND be good at it - or DPS all need to be BLM/DRG/Monk

It's also content intended to last at least five or six months. It's the fault of the players for trying to rush it with minimal gear, where healer damage becomes less of an option and more of a competitive edge.

Also, it's a human balance psychology things. Imagine if you live with 7 other peoples who hold each others equal, and technically only 4 of you have to work to get enough food for all 8. Do you think the group gonna last long if the other 4 just adopt a mindset of "well, if the other 4 works hard enough there is enough food for all of us, so I don't have to work for food" ? Saying "healer DPS shouldn't be necessary for clear" is the same-thing, it maybe, it maybe not, but the point is equal contribution.

This is a faulty comparison because it assumes that those four other people are doing exactly nothing when they could be doing other things that provide some other benefit to the group like doing things around the house. It's like saying that every single in hunter-gatherer societies has to hunt or else the group fails, which has never been the case except for cases in which hunters aren't able to perform their role effectively.

What about the healer who has to heal non-stop because the tank doesn't know what a cooldown is? Does that make them bad because they don't have any breathing room to do damage? You're basically saying that they are bad given your arguments as well as those requiring healers to do damage.

[Hash_Browns]

It's also content intended to last at least five or six months. It's the fault of the players for trying to rush it with minimal gear, where healer damage becomes less of an option and more of a competitive edge.



This is a faulty comparison because it assumes that those four other people are doing exactly nothing when they could be doing other things that provide some other benefit to the group like doing things around the house. It's like saying that every single in hunter-gatherer societies has to hunt or else the group fails, which has never been the case except for cases in which hunters aren't able to perform their role effectively.

What about the healer who has to heal non-stop because the tank doesn't know what a cooldown is? Does that make them bad because they don't have any breathing room to do damage? You're basically saying that they are bad given your arguments as well as those requiring healers to do damage.

I think you are missing the point.
Like, completely.

The Savage content was designed to be able to be cleared with the minimum iLvl requirement. The 460 gear wouldn't even provide enough of a buff to pick up the healers slack.

I say 460 because you need to do the savage content in order to get that gear upgraded to 470, which still wouldn't be enough.

Unless you somehow think we should bring 4 BLMs for all content, and ignore other DPS classes. That is 4 BLMs playing the class perfectly, as well as 2 tanks playing perfectly - all of them in a full set of 460 gear, or 450 penta-melded gear. As well as only bringing 2 ASTs because they, would need to support the BLMs with cards, and would have enough time since the fight would be 50-70% downtime for them where they do nothing but emote.

[Blum4vi]

Why overthink it so much.. ?
Screw savages or whatever, if you are with a group of people and are doing something together, everyone should do what they can.
If the party is taking a lot of damage, I heal, if I have a shield on tank and dps are doing fine, I do damage..
But if party is not having enough damage beyond that, you cannot blame the healer for not having high dps.

I don't see the mentality behind considering healers sit in a corner and emote when they don't heal.. Being healer and being a bad team player are different things, it's not a class thing.

[Misutoraru]

Not really, it's more like people haven't caught on the design different. I was a top ten US raid healer in WoW at the time I quit and switch to FF14. Joint an FC static and worked through coil, but my mindset was strictly a "healer only heal". Of course I immidiately noticed how little healing going out in this game. In WoW (or other MMO) there are always a constant ambient damage that needs constant heal, tanks constantly needed to be top off so they don't die to the mechanic. FF14's fight is designed with no consistent damage, but come in wave. Also, the healing potency in FF14 has always been massive in relative to the HP pools, meaning it takes less time to top someone off. So in between there is no other thing for healer to do.e" didn't even cross my mind, and it seems didn't cross the mind of anyone else either. We were all above average so to speak, but it's little wonder why we can only clear the 3rd phase of each tier once we were stacked on gears, and even with echo, we still barely meet the enrage of the final phase. Thinking back, it's probably because the 2 healers did zero DPS, and the tanks probably didn't focus too much on DPS either. So what I am saying here is that the "design" of the content hasn't really changed since 2.0

I took a break just after first coil release, I don’t notice such situations, probably because we all just running first coil with dark light set and first stage of relic, no one is vastly overgear, hence I have little down time to pull a aero and may be 1-2 stone before I have back to casting heal. Then I came back as HW release, there are some intense fight like the Vault pair with my low potency AST, those are quite intense healing. Time fly ppl have been quite over gear and AST was buff to the sky. Try A1S, don’t even have to do mechanics, just dps the boss down ASAP, and I barely need to cast any heal, just spam my only single target dps.
I mean it wouldn’t hurt if we push the healing requirements more this expansion, a small tune down of healing potency or rise in oGCD healing CD would be able to tip the balance slightly.