I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[LaylaTsarra]

Rarely see healers that don't dps. On the contrary getting some to cast an actual heal spell can be something. Threads like this are a big to do about nothing really in my opinion.

[Connor]

Small problem with that: Unless the other two healers are LITERALLY unable to put out enough healing to clear, why would anyone bring the job that can only heal and literally do absolutely nothing else?

The playstyle ‘types’ are just for example’s sake than being an actually workable concept. Naturally a healer doing just healing wouldn’t be worth taking over ones that can do support or deal damage, I more mean the concept of ‘standard healer’, ‘DPS heavy healer’, ‘support like healer’, within the context of ffxiv design (they all need a DoT and nuke, basic heal spell and aoe, etc). Basically what they seem to have tried to do with the current three healers. Having 3 different and distinct playstyles makes balancing 3 times more difficult than if they were all similar, which I do get, but I feel like there could be a happy medium between making them feel more unique without creating a significant balance issue. Each healer would still need some kind of ‘damage rotation’ and the like, but they could surely do a bit more to at least make the DPS ‘rotations’ feel less like clones of each other. Even if it’s something simple like WHM does direct damage, Scholar does DoTs, Astrologian has a weaker DoTs but makes up DPS difference in cards. We essentially already have the concept in place, it just hasn’t been executed very well I think.

What I’m trying to say is that even though healers are limited in how different they can be (for balance sake) I still think they could do more to make them feel a bit more distinct from each other

[grinkdaboy]

give me a melee healer

[Urthdigger]

The playstyle ‘types’ are just for example’s sake than being an actually workable concept. Naturally a healer doing just healing wouldn’t be worth taking over ones that can do support or deal damage, I more mean the concept of ‘standard healer’, ‘DPS heavy healer’, ‘support like healer’, within the context of ffxiv design (they all need a DoT and nuke, basic heal spell and aoe, etc). Basically what they seem to have tried to do with the current three healers. Having 3 different and distinct playstyles makes balancing 3 times more difficult than if they were all similar, which I do get, but I feel like there could be a happy medium between making them feel more unique without creating a significant balance issue. Each healer would still need some kind of ‘damage rotation’ and the like, but they could surely do a bit more to at least make the DPS ‘rotations’ feel less like clones of each other. Even if it’s something simple like WHM does direct damage, Scholar does DoTs, Astrologian has a weaker DoTs but makes up DPS difference in cards. We essentially already have the concept in place, it just hasn’t been executed very well I think.

What I’m trying to say is that even though healers are limited in how different they can be (for balance sake) I still think they could do more to make them feel a bit more distinct from each other

Regardless, having something that focuses on healing output as its primary focus is inherently limited. When player skill and gear improves, the healing requirement becomes easier and easier. Consideration must always be given to what a healer does when healing is no longer required. If healing is the primary focus, then even if it's not literally incapable of anything else, it's still by nature less effective than every other healer once that threshold is reached.

I feel healers should be treated in a similar manner to tanks, where their kit for performing their primary function (healing in this case) is largely similar and fairly simple and easy, with mechanics and differences reserved for their secondary functions.

[van_arn]

give me a melee healer

Oh like dancer in ffxi?

Oops too soon

[Clicked]

Oh like dancer in ffxi?

Oops too soon

FFXI dancer is not a healer... it's a bursty support dps. Sound familiar?

[Connor]

Regardless, having something that focuses on healing output as its primary focus is inherently limited. When player skill and gear improves, the healing requirement becomes easier and easier. Consideration must always be given to what a healer does when healing is no longer required. If healing is the primary focus, then even if it's not literally incapable of anything else, it's still by nature less effective than every other healer once that threshold is reached.

I feel healers should be treated in a similar manner to tanks, where their kit for performing their primary function (healing in this case) is largely similar and fairly simple and easy, with mechanics and differences reserved for their secondary functions.

I think you may have misunderstood in the first part. By ‘healing oriented plastyle’ type healer I still mean ‘healing oriented within the context of ffxiv’. For example, a job that’s a middle group between the more damage oriented healer and the supportive one, with direct healing/ damage output instead of DoTs or heal shields etc. It would still have to have a strong DPS rotation like any other job to justify its existence. It’s also worth considering that a ‘DPS through healing’ job could possibly allow a ‘healing oriented’ playstyle without the limitations of being a ‘pure healer’ I’m not suggesting that there should be a healer that ‘just heal’, just one that more direct with their abilities (e.g White Mage). If healer A does good DPS with strong direct healing, healer B does more DPS with DoTs but less direct healing options, and healer C provides party support but at the cost of personal DPS, surely there’s incentive to take each of the three

The second part is what I’ve been trying to say. Healers need homogenisation but that doesn’t mean they can’t have their own distinct ‘feel’, even if it’s just something like changing up the damage rotations to feel less similar between the three jobs. It’s also an unfortunate inevitability that with three jobs it’s not mathematically feasible for them to be identically balanced unless they’re the same job three times over. Making a gap as small as possible is all they can really do

[Misutoraru]

give me a melee healer

i am not sure how this work, especially I am already running left and right in Alliance Raid trying to keep everyone HP top

a healer heal at melee range will fail miserably or have very OP spell

Regardless, having something that focuses on healing output as its primary focus is inherently limited. When player skill and gear improves, the healing requirement becomes easier and easier. Consideration must always be given to what a healer does when healing is no longer required. If healing is the primary focus, then even if it's not literally incapable of anything else, it's still by nature less effective than every other healer once that threshold is reached.

I feel healers should be treated in a similar manner to tanks, where their kit for performing their primary function (healing in this case) is largely similar and fairly simple and easy, with mechanics and differences reserved for their secondary functions.

This is one of the biggest issue we have, the power creep have lose control. We could have tighter il sync, and receiving dmg more frequently, a tune down to our healing potency especially oGCD one would help shifting the fighting trend to more balance of heal and DPS, unlike currently which even a healer can spend more time on DPS than heal

[Kazrah]

Not true.

Using the website that shall not be named on encounters on EX and above at minimum ilv, if you took the required raid dps and removed healers from the equation, the dps would all have to be playing at 95th to over 100th percentile. We're talking better than padded world first players. This often isn't realistically possible and is far more than intended for EX.

So git gud scrub? Seriously, if you're doing things because you're at minimum ilvl (which is surprisingly low this expansion) and expect healers to pick up your slack on top of cleaning up your mess, then clearly you just want a carry.

Honestly, with the changes to make tanks easier to play, giving them more damage options while removing a good portion of their defensive cooldowns all while having mobs hit harder....it all makes me wonder why tanks are still being given mounts in the first place when it should be healers instead for having to do their job AND the DPSs job at the same time. I'm not saying "healers shouldn't dps", I'm saying that it should not be a requirement and that DPS players (and maybe tank players too) should git gud.

[Hash_Browns]

So git gud scrub? Seriously, if you're doing things because you're at minimum ilvl (which is surprisingly low this expansion) and expect healers to pick up your slack on top of cleaning up your mess, then clearly you just want a carry.

Honestly, with the changes to make tanks easier to play, giving them more damage options while removing a good portion of their defensive cooldowns all while having mobs hit harder....it all makes me wonder why tanks are still being given mounts in the first place when it should be healers instead for having to do their job AND the DPSs job at the same time. I'm not saying "healers shouldn't dps", I'm saying that it should not be a requirement and that DPS players (and maybe tank players too) should git gud.

"Get gud" doesn't work here when a bunch of DPS can't even reach the DPS needed for E4S if we don't factor in healer damage. AS in the classes just aren't strong enough to get passed the enrage timer.

If you want to beat the Savage enrage timers currently, either healers need to DPS, AND be good at it - or DPS all need to be BLM/DRG/Monk