Lack of End Game Content

[Avraym]

Raiders STILL have their challenge when doing Ultimate, that's not going to change whatsoever with the sync in place.
You have to understand that.
And most raiders don't raid for the "weapon".
They raid for the challenge and the bragging rights of having cleared said content.

This is true, raiders do love the bragging rights.

But I cling to the ideology that they'll always be more inclined to do whatever content will get them best in slot even more.

But that's purely an opinion.

[Kamatsu]

This is true, raiders do love the bragging rights.

But I cling to the ideology that they'll always be more inclined to do whatever content will get them best in slot even more.

But that's purely an opinion.

And this is what the truth of what is wanted - endgame raiding that only a small % of players can, and even will, do that provides them with better gear than anyone else... which will lead, as it always does in games that offer this, to elitism and lording it over the "casuals" who can't (due to lack of time, skill, effort, etc) obtain said gear.

As for the claim "Just give us a little, it's all we ask" - once they have that, it will never satisfy them... they will ask/demand more and more. History has shown in other games that have given to them... that they then start asking for more.

I remember in Guild Wars 2 for a long time raiders asked for 'hard content', raids, etc... and made the exact same claims as made by ppl in here - we just want the challenge, we just want a small bit to keep us going, we don't need best-gear, etc. They did get what they wanted eventually... ANet made in-game raids for them. What happened? Within a short time these same posters were complaining that it was not enough, that they were sad with how small the raids actually were... and demanding that more effort be made into providing even more raids, even more fights, even more content for them. They also demanded that the raids provide BiS gear that was significantly better than the current BiS Ascended gear was... as the time and effort put into raiding meant they should get the best of the best.

Sounds familiar right? It should, because if you go through this thread and look at the post's from those asking for more endgame focus and raids... you'll see all this.

Another point - about the popularity of raiding. Many people here will point to WoW as being the penultimate 'endgame raiding' game... from start to current. Funny fact is, back in WotLK days the dev's discussed the changes to raiding they'd made (moving Naxx from top-tier WoW to bottom-tier LK, LFR work, etc) - and the key point was the sheer LOW number of players who showed even an interest in raiding. They revealed that as of the end of BC only 6-7% of the player base had ever even set foot into any of the base or BC raids, only 4-5% had even cleared the 1st entry-level tier raid, and of the base raids only 1% had ever even managed to make it to Naxx... with less than 0.5% managing to clear it. The dev's who did all the work on the raids (story, art, fights, etc) were sad that so few ppl ever got to see their hard work 1st hand... this is why they moved Naxx to entry-level LK raid, why they worked on LFR, etc.

So "the raiding MMO' could not even get 10% of it's player base to even enter a raid. And this kind of low player-base who are interested in hard raids/dungeons/etc at endgame are supported by other games as well - when you look at say ESO, which has hard dungeons as a DLC... the 'veteran' (ie harder than hard version) version of the dungeons only have 3-5% clear rates on them.

Note - I stopped playing WoW just before Legion came out. The %'s of those entering raids can't be used as any reflection anymore, as the dev's have moved raiding from a purely endgame feature to something you have to do midway - 3/4 of the way through the main expansion story now. IE you used to only get LFR & normal raiding after the expansions story was done, but now you'll get to 50-75% or so mark of the expansion story and forced to do a LFR raid if you want to continue on with the base story. This shows just how desperate WoW dev's are to get #'s experiencing their raiding content... that they are now shoving it into the expansions main storyline, rather than just at the end.

And when you think of this - is there any surprise that FFXIV doesn't really change it's formulea? Works mostly on content that casual's can do, with a small amount done for hardcore savage/ultimate raiders. SE has shown it won't give YoshiP more budget so he could offer more hardcore content without effecting the vast majority of the playerbase, and YoshiP has shown he's not going to peeve off the majority just to try and please the minority... for good reason as other games have shown.

Good example - Guild Wars 2 listened to the 'hardcore' who acted like they were a huge amount... they demanded the base game was harder & more group focused. ANet listened and made the expansion Heart of Thorns harder to solo, more group focused, locked what would have previously been solo content behind a 'group only' requirement, etc just as the forum 'hardcore' players wanted.

ANet proceeded to suffer a 67% loss of revenue over the next 6 months as the majority of their paying customers left the game. This was the biggest loss that ANet has ever suffered with GW2 in a 6-month period by a huge margin. It was so bad that ANet made a public apology, said they had stuffed up... and nerfed the expansion area's heavily, changed the 'group only' stuff to stuff that could be done solo, etc all in an effort to stem the loss of players (and yes, it did stem the tide).

I'm sure YoshiP, and SE, have kept an eye on what's happening in other major MMO's and online games that they compete with for players (and yes, GW2 is a competitor to XIV)... and taken note of what works and what doesn't.

[HyoMinPark]

And this is what the truth of what is wanted - endgame raiding that only a small % of players can, and even will, do that provides them with better gear than anyone else... which will lead, as it always does in games that offer this, to elitism and lording it over the "casuals" who can't (due to lack of time, skill, effort, etc) obtain said gear.

While there are certain to be those out there who do try to “lord it over the casuals”, a lot of raiders also don’t care. I raid, and I don’t give two flying flips about what other players do in this game. I don’t care what their gear looks like—I don’t care if they have Savage BiS or not. The only time I ever speak of my own achievements is when someone is attempting to belittle me. Otherwise, I remain fairly humble. So please, don’t generalize all raiders.

As for the claim "Just give us a little, it's all we ask" - once they have that, it will never satisfy them... they will ask/demand more and more. History has shown in other games that have given to them... that they then start asking for more.

Most Ultimate raiders have only asked for a handful of things from the developers:
1. Keep making more Ultimate fights.
2. Keep the content synced/retain its challenge.
3. If they are ever unsynced in the future, remove the rewards.

And most are satisfied. I know I am. While I’d like for Savage or the Extremes to return to the glory days of Midas or Thordan Ex/Sephirot Ex, as long as there is still something challenging like Ultimate for me to have, I’m relatively content. And I stay pretty busy with content in this game, even if it’s not “endgame content” per the OP’s definition. I have multiple alts that I enjoy leveling, for example. So, again, please do not generalize all of us.