Lack of End Game Content

[Hawklaser]

Because the kind of break the caps are meant to encourage is the kind that discourages you from playing continuously on one sitting for a long period of time without break. You have the dailies that act as a soft cap and the weeklies that act as a hard cap.

It is not the kind of break where you decide this week or this month or this year or even this expansion you're not playing the game. You can still decide to do that, but that's up to you. If you run out of things you want to do, you can take a break from the game, but that's not the kind of break the dailies and weeklies are meant to address.

And we all know how beloved the exhaustion system of 1.0 was right? That was a system designed around encouraging shorter play sessions.

The implementation of caps and the development ideal of periodic breaks end up at odds with each other. As long as the caps serve as any kind of meaningful gate, they will create the feeling of having to meet the cap within that set period or end up feeling behind. Set the caps too loose and they may as well have not existed in the first place.

Granted, this usually impacts primarily those interested in keeping up with the current endgame, but this is a thread about endgame content. However in more predatory mobile style games, those same caps are used to not encourage breaks but to get people to spend money because if they don't meet those caps they do fall significantly behind in ways that are impossible to make up otherwise. Which leads to the game becoming more like a job. Which is also what happened with old school raids that had weekly lockouts, combined with guilds doing their own point based loot systems. The guilds really had no quick way to get a replacement up to speed for their progression teams thanks to the lockouts, which made the raiding feel more like a job than a game to a number of people over time. It was all about being there on raid night, prepared, and performing consistently, in order to get the high end progression, with one chance at loot per cap cycle. Imagine just how different things may have been if the groups could have reset their current raid instances more at will and progressed at their own rate instead.

[Misutoraru]

The implementation of caps and the development ideal of periodic breaks end up at odds with each other. As long as the caps serve as any kind of meaningful gate, they will create the feeling of having to meet the cap within that set period or end up feeling behind. Set the caps too loose and they may as well have not existed in the first place.

just want to share this
I must say I enjoy the weekly cap
most of the MMO i use to play have no weekly/daily cap, and I have to login everyday and clear content till I got the loot that day, because if I miss a day I am behind, if I miss 2 days, I am seriously behind, and the static raid group feel like a 2nd job
the weekly cap I have 7 days to get my loot, I can have a life outside MMO.
Weekly cap, some players like it, some don't. I believe it will never have a definitive solution to please everyone

[linay]

the feeling of having to meet the cap within that set period or end up feeling behind.

Since we're speaking endgame, at that point, they should know enough about the game to maximize their playtime and what they want to accomplish in the game without having to feel left behind. Another thing to consider is that having no cap means that you can be left behind even more and then having the pressure to overcompensate when catching up.

[Hawklaser]

just want to share this
I must say I enjoy the weekly cap
most of the MMO i use to play have no weekly/daily cap, and I have to login everyday and clear content till I got the loot that day, because if I miss a day I am behind, if I miss 2 days, I am seriously behind, and the static raid group feel like a 2nd job
the weekly cap I have 7 days to get my loot, I can have a life outside MMO.
Weekly cap, some players like it, some don't. I believe it will never have a definitive solution to please everyone

That sounds like you were dealing with a hidden daily cap. IE a resource that is only gotten from their finite daily quests, in a predetermined amount. Still a cap, just the devs not being up front about it, much like how some of those predatory P2W mobile games work.

So there was a cap in place, just not an obvious one.

[Hawklaser]

Since we're speaking endgame, at that point, they should know enough about the game to maximize their playtime and what they want to accomplish in the game without having to feel left behind. Another thing to consider is that having no cap means that you can be left behind even more and then having the pressure to overcompensate when catching up.

Yes, you could be left behind even more, but if your group isn't willing to help get you back up to speed and instead just tosses you to the curb, it wasn't a very good group to begin with was it? A good group will help with those catch up clears making it go really fast.

I have plenty of friends that would love to play an MMO that simply won't pick one up currently because their current field of work and the cap systems that MMOs use for end game content are incompatible. Their schedule fluctuates in ways that make it impossible to static, and if you pug on weekly capped content, this can happen quite easily, and its also why guilds developed their point systems.

It's a different group every week. So far I've been out rolled as follows:

Week 1 ES1 + ES2 - 6 Drops
Week 2 ES1 + ES2 + ES3 - 9 Drops
Week 3 ES1 + ES2 + ES3 - 9 Drops

Like I said, very problematic.

I would bet Avraym feels behind progression wise and thats even with meeting the weekly cap.

The fun of military work or other jobs such as those that work in oil drilling and the like where could be running into situations of couple of weeks of near constant work followed by a couple of weeks off, or schedules that fluctuate on a very regular basis and can't have set days off like with typical shift work. Which is a nice chunk of potential players that might not touch some harder content as often as they might want to as they are limited much more on when they can play and the caps don't really account for them. These are the ones who would benefit the most from the removal of caps, along with those that might be taking a vacation for a couple of weeks. At least without an enforced cap, groups with a member that falls into one of the above scenarios can plan around it, and delay the clears until they can do it as a group instead of loosing the loot chance for cap cycle.

And the point you raised about maximizing playtime for best effect. Why do you think people started making guilds and statics in the first place? It wasn't to exclude people, but to efficiently clear content in limited playtime for those that are unable to play more than a few hours at a time. Yet weekly content caps can still impact them and put them behind as well thanks to all the same factors that affect any individual.

[linay]

Yes, you could be left behind even more, but if your group isn't willing to help get you back up to speed and instead just tosses you to the curb, it wasn't a very good group to begin with was it? A good group will help with those catch up clears making it go really fast.

I have plenty of friends that would love to play an MMO that simply won't pick one up currently because their current field of work and the cap systems that MMOs use for end game content are incompatible. Their schedule fluctuates in ways that make it impossible to static, and if you pug on weekly capped content, this can happen quite easily, and its also why guilds developed their point systems.



I would bet Avraym feels behind progression wise and thats even with meeting the weekly cap.

The fun of military work or other jobs such as those that work in oil drilling and the like where could be running into situations of couple of weeks of near constant work followed by a couple of weeks off, or schedules that fluctuate on a very regular basis and can't have set days off like with typical shift work. Which is a nice chunk of potential players that might not touch some harder content as often as they might want to as they are limited much more on when they can play and the caps don't really account for them. These are the ones who would benefit the most from the removal of caps, along with those that might be taking a vacation for a couple of weeks. At least without an enforced cap, groups with a member that falls into one of the above scenarios can plan around it, and delay the clears until they can do it as a group instead of loosing the loot chance for cap cycle.

And the point you raised about maximizing playtime for best effect. Why do you think people started making guilds and statics in the first place? It wasn't to exclude people, but to efficiently clear content in limited playtime for those that are unable to play more than a few hours at a time. Yet weekly content caps can still impact them and put them behind as well thanks to all the same factors that affect any individual.

First, if you have to take short breaks, there is plenty of time in between raid tiers that you can catch up comfortably with the cap in place. Second, if you have to take longer breaks, there are catch up mechanics in place and the way vertical progression works it does not really matter if you miss out on a particular gear. Third, if you have people that you can rely on (statics, guilds, friends, etc.), then you can always go back to do old contents you missed out on, even doing it on appropriate gear if you want. Fourth, even if you don't, there is a chance you can still use PF to do old content or just queue for it depending on the type of content it is.

[Avraym]

First, if you have to take short breaks, there is plenty of time in between raid tiers that you can catch up comfortably with the cap in place. Second, if you have to take longer breaks, there are catch up mechanics in place and the way vertical progression works it does not really matter if you miss out on a particular gear. Third, if you have people that you can rely on (statics, guilds, friends, etc.), then you can always go back to do old contents you missed out on, even doing it on appropriate gear if you want. Fourth, even if you don't, there is a chance you can still use PF to do old content or just queue for it depending on the type of content it is.

Actually I disagree with this sentiment.

I often take breaks in between patch cycles and don't have the flexability of joining a static due to random working hours.

This means I am subject to the party finder upon my return.

Unfortunately I found often the case when returning to Stormblood for example, the item level's party finder requirement were so high that you couldn't actually join savage this late into the game without already having some savage gear.

That only left me with duty finder, but not many people would queue for incomplete duty this late into a patch cycle.

[linay]

Actually I disagree with this sentiment.

I often take breaks in between patch cycles and don't have the flexability of joining a static due to random working hours.

This means I am subject to the party finder upon my return.

Unfortunately I found often the case when returning, the item level's party finder requirement were so high that you couldn't actually join savage this late into the game without already having some savage gear.

That's when you make your own PF with your own requirement. I don't think that invalidates what I said. In fact, I even said you might have to use PF.

And my initial point remains that daily/weekly cap was never meant to address people with irregular schedule or people who choose to take breaks from the game. So it's understandable if they might be inconvenienced by it. There are still ways to get by, but it will always be the case that you will have an easier time playing if you play regularly.

[ForteNightshade]

Actually I disagree with this sentiment.

I often take breaks in between patch cycles and don't have the flexability of joining a static due to random working hours.

This means I am subject to the party finder upon my return.

Unfortunately I found often the case when returning to Stormblood for example, the item level's party finder requirement were so high that you couldn't actually join savage this late into the game without already having some savage gear.

That only left me with duty finder, but not many people would queue for incomplete duty this late into a patch cycle.

I pugged Sigma and Alpha from time to time last tier and never had an issue joining parties despite my tanks only having tome or Ivalice gear. Hell, I took my BRD in full i380 crafted. Perhaps Elemental is different, though I think you're just making excuses since Aether is supposedly the "toxic, elitist" DC.

[Avraym]

I pugged Sigma and Alpha from time to time last tier and never had an issue joining parties despite my tanks only having tome or Ivalice gear. Hell, I took my BRD in full i380 crafted. Perhaps Elemental is different, though I think you're just making excuses since Aether is supposedly the "toxic, elitist" DC.

I'm not making excuses, just speaking to my experience.

It doesn't help being an Australian on a Japanese server.