Being denied the ability to ask questions in Feast is miserable

[Gallus]

Of course I know nothing about you, am I even judging you in the first place? If you play PVP and you are content with it and have built a nice group of FFXIV PVPers good for you. I've been gaming enough time to draw my own conclusions and speak from experience about what I think PVP communities have turned into.

And I have a lot of reasons to think this terrible normalized behaviour that has been established in the pvp communities (and that is very well known at this point) draws away a lot of potential good mannered players that say nope to all this.

I'm not lying if I told you I've ran thousands of dungeons in this game, this is no exaggeration, thousands of them, the times someone has legitimately made me feel bad in one them? I could probably count these situations with the fingers of my two hands since ARR (you know, the very occasional premade kicking you out of a dungeon or someone extremely rude), and again, this is NO exaggeration, maybe 5 or 6 situations where I was really offended and reported a DF group for kicking me out of the blue or being extremely rude.

The amount of times someone has made me feel bad in a PVP environment? Jesuschrist... countless of them. Countless. I could spend 2 entire days counting and it wouldn't be over.

Wanna guess why I kept playing despite the above? Because I like gaming, and I like competition, but at some point it was completely unbearable, so yeah, I stopped.

Hate me as much as you want, but I think I'm not the one you should be hating here.

[Gallus]

And to answer your question, you know why PVP chat was disabled? Cause it was easy. That's literally it.

The easiest and cheapest measure was disabling the chat yes, but that wasn't the reason. The reason the chat was disabled was because people were toxic.

And no, it wasn't 2 or 3 people. SE doesn't disable the entire PVP chat over 2 or 3 flamers. That other guy claimed I make "generalisations", but when a chat is disabled like this it's because it's not just "that one guy" occasionally but a rather extended and rotten thing.

[Ixon]

Firstly, you cannot compare a dungeon run to PVP, at all. You know why? Everyone is a winner in a dungeon, everyone gets a trophy at the end, so of course there is hardly any reason for anyone to get upset. In ANY PVP there are winners, and losers. There are stakes at hand, and plenty of reason for people to get upset.

There is no hate, there is the "Your not making anything better by grouping everyone who likes PVP into a toxic cesspool" feeling.

There is toxicity is EVERY SINGLE FORM OF COMPETITION, not by everyone, but by people who choose to be toxic. It does not mean the community is toxic, it means, there are assholes in the community, something we as players cannot stop. Even then, the PVPaissa Discord has made great strides to cut down toxicity and it shows, but you trample their success by spamming "PVP community nothing but toxic".

And to your chat question still, you make it sound like that out of every competitive game on the internet, FFXIV PVP is the worst hence the no chat. You know when chat was disabled? When SE was still crawling out of the 1.0 sinkhole(I would say there were up until shadowbringers) over two years ago. You know how much time, attention, or money PVP got back then? An update every 6 months if we were lucky. PVP is an extremely small part of FFXIV and not worth the investment since it only effects a small part of the total population. They literally just disabled it instead of having a better process like Overwatch has. It's not cause of an epidemic, it's not cause it was literally the worst, it's cause it was cheap and easy. You know why it's still disabled? Cheaper and easier than a better system.

Food for thought, SE hosted a PVP tournament at every Fanfest the past year, what does that tell you about this "toxic community"?

[Gallus]

Firstly, you cannot compare a dungeon run to PVP, at all. You know why? Everyone is a winner in a dungeon, everyone gets a trophy at the end, so of course there is hardly any reason for anyone to get upset. In ANY PVP there are winners, and losers. There are stakes at hand, and plenty of reason for people to get upset.

Just gonna quote this and say that I completely agree. A large amount of people have repeteadly demonstrated that they don't react well and can't behave when they lose a match in a competitive scenario. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Regarding PVPaissa or w/e these guys are called, I don't know them, and I don't doubt they are a good bunch of helpful folks, but this is just an irrelevant minority triviallized by an endless horde of people with bad temper.
FFXIV PVP is by no means the worst PVP I've ever experienced, but I'm gonna be honest, I've come across very unpleasant people that made it very hard for me to enjoy PVP here in FFXIV, to the point I stopped, and I repeat, they weren't 2 or 3 guys. I'm almost certain they were from a discord group too or at least the same linkshell, because at some point some of them even boycotted me by refusing to even play when I was on their team, they'd spam emotes, put ignore markers on my head, etc. really good stuff. All this while I was struggling and trying to find a way to contribute to the team as much as possible, I might've not been the best FFXIV pvper, but I was legitimately trying to find ways to improve, and these idiots (sorry for resorting to insults but they deserve no better) harassed me so hard for so many days I even quitted FFXIV out of frustration. I didn't even want to PVE at that point, and stood away from FFXIV a good 6 months.
And yeah, this isn't the worst "PVP thing" I've ever come across. So how the hell can I have a nice perception if everything I've smelled and witnessed all this time have been insults, harassment, flame and angry people. Also, for what reason would I come here and spout this if it wasn't true? What the hell do I gain from lying?
Anyhow, I shouldn't even be here posting, because I'm not interested in PVP in the slightest, it was just this line:

And for what? To cater to pantywaists who become emotionally distressed when people say mean things about their play in a video game?

That made my blood boil, so I answered.

[Tanama]

Dude you assume you'd get constructive feedback or tips in Feast. You won't. No one is going to make the effort to teach you how to play. You're just going to get heckled at and berrated until you quit completely.

I don't think having chat is worth the aggravation of having to be forced to listen to toxic babies who can't handle losses in a videogame.

With that said, I'm fine with an option for people to opt in and out of feast chat. Id that happens, I hope you enjoy and "learn" from the thousands of "l2p" and various profanities hurled your way.

I believe this. A friend of mine that used to PvP often told me that their own random teammates in the Feast would go out of their way to sabotage and throw away the match if they didn't like the way you played.

[Commander_Justitia]

I believe this. A friend of mine that used to PvP often told me that their own random teammates in the Feast would go out of their way to sabotage and throw away the match if they didn't like the way you played.

How does having a chat or not having that chat change the behavior of that player ? If anything, it would be easier to report him if he insults somebody, as GM can deal faster with chatlog proof.


__
It would help if it would be possible to instantly mute players in-match chat and player-quickchatpings separately on the scoreboard. Introduce a better way to 1click report pvp issues and deal with them more swiftly. Every game has toxic players, it just becomes an issue when there is no punishment or superdetailed and slow report options like atm. Just rightclick on playername, report, reason, text and done would be better.

Tbh I think SE is more concerned about having experienced players prepare chat macros that increase their chance of winning than about the toxicity issue. They want to force a low skill ceiling to appeal new players.
with sideeffect: less work for a GM, so there are reasons why they don't like to add it again. I think however, that the possibility to talk with other PvP players without having to add them as friend, is pretty vital to the mode itself and the playerbase in PvP, or it stays a faceless community and only develops outside of FF14 in discords.

[Crit]

just another pve vs pvp mentality full of delusional and subjectively morally biased mutiny


the real issue here is my popcorn ran out

[Schan]

It does suck not to be able to ask for advice but first of all people won't have time to write long advice sentences in the middle of pvp.

Secondly pvp environments foster an extremely toxic behaviour. As someone who came from plenty of pvp games i can tell you the Feast actually makes me saltier than the red sea. There are so many clueless people and no way to help them unless they go out of their way to find help which knowing this community... they most likely won't.

On the other hand I personally find it somewhat difficult to find any information about pvping in this game which is sad. Granted we're getting adjusted to the new changes...

I don't find pvp in this game to be THAT bad. It's kinda enjoyable if you don't take it too seriously. I can see how it falls apart nce you start min-maxing though.

[Nova_Rox]

It does suck not to be able to ask for advice but first of all people won't have time to write long advice sentences in the middle of pvp.

Secondly pvp environments foster an extremely toxic behaviour. As someone who came from plenty of pvp games i can tell you the Feast actually makes me saltier than the red sea. There are so many clueless people and no way to help them unless they go out of their way to find help which knowing this community... they most likely won't.

On the other hand I personally find it somewhat difficult to find any information about pvping in this game which is sad. Granted we're getting adjusted to the new changes...

I don't find pvp in this game to be THAT bad. It's kinda enjoyable if you don't take it too seriously. I can see how it falls apart nce you start min-maxing though.

Once you get into ANY content that's slightly difficult tension starts to rise and sometimes tempers flare. That goes for PvE and PvP.

[Schan]

Once you get into ANY content that's slightly difficult tension starts to rise and sometimes tempers flare. That goes for PvE and PvP.

That is true but crappy people are everywhere. from the easiest content to the hardest.