Lack of End Game Content

[Aldora]

We all know that Yoshida wanted to make an MMO which was accessible for everyone. From Hardcore Raiders to casual players who can only play every once and a while. The game was to be story driven, with a rich story and job system that would give that Final Fantasy feel to it. This resulted in the Themepark MMO we have right now.

Sure, the game is far from perfect, with it's quirks and "system limitations", but also players who want more casual, midcore and hardcore content (aside from more glamour options, minions, mounts, collaborations, races, jobs, etc, etc). There's nothing wrong with players wanting more content, tailored to their taste. Personally, the more content to play, the better.

However, there are limits to what a company can produce for their product while retaining the highest quality possible. But, we cannot say where these limits lie and if they can be "easily solved" by simply adding more developers to their staff. That is something the team itself and the upper management has to decide. You can't always slap more developers on the case in order to make something bigger and better at the same time.

Yoshida gave a good explanation on it during the interview with MizzTeq:

Q: Are there thoughts of ever creating ever-increasing difficulty mode for those past dungeons, similar to Mythic+ System in World of Warcraft?
A: It's something that could possibly be considered but that means it would take away efforts on creating new content. Or the patch cycles may get delayed. It's actually been brought up a few times with regards to WoW and end content like that, and if we were allowed to take as much time as WoW does, we might be able to accomplish something very similar but we would like to keep our major patch update schedule as we currently have it. It would be difficult to juggle both keeping that consistent schedule and also including more difficult content. But, we are definitely impressed by the system that WoW does employ in their dungeons where they are ever-increasing levels and the systems that they have for the gear sets and what not. it's really well-made. Maybe if we had double the number of people in the battle system team, the battle content team, our QA team, oh and, one more Yoshida...

Source: Question Six (MizzTeq NA Media Tour Interview)

It doesn't mean that they won't increase their team over time. It just not like they can open a can of developers and tada! New challenging raid content! \(^_^ )/

Not all content is for everyone and we should respect their opinions on it, because that's how they see it.

I've been here since the Alpha version of 1.0 and I love to see people enjoy playing the (current) game as much as i do. If you feel like the game could use more content, just let them know through the forums. It might inspire them to create just that or maybe something similiar (which would match their vision of the game).

I would only ask not to berate others from making these types of suggestions (calling them elitst, toxic, trolls or tell them to find another game), but also refrain from berating the developers if something doesn't turn out the way you want to (calling the game "crap" because it "only has x bosses"). At the end of the day, we are all just people who want to enjoy ourselves and invest time into something love to do. This applies to everyone, even the developers who are working hours on end to make stuff which we can as players can enjoy.

There's still more content to come. For everyone. I for one am dying to get my hands on Eden Savage and the Yohra Raid (which will be introduced in 5.1).

[Deusteele]

So many arguments taken verbatim from WoW.

Hardcore Tryhard players trying to hold developers hostage with their subscriptions. We can see how that worked out in WoW. Going back and hind-sighting the change from Challenge Modes only being for transmog gear(MoP)-Challenge dungeons dropping a raid gear coffer(WoD)-Mythic Modes dropping better gear and an heirloom piece(WoD)-Mythic+ becoming part of the gearing cycle(Legion/BFA). Thunderforged becoming Warforged becoming Titanforged all for the illusion of a never ending BiS chase.

And all that for a small section of the playerbase that ended up leaving anyway. All the changes made that trickled down into the rest of game. All so that a smaller selection of classes could see the "new" style of endgame. All for a gameplay mode that encourages "GOGOGO" and cheese strategies. All for a section of gamers that never were going to stay. There is not, never was, and never will be a viable design strategy that is worth catering to Hardcore Tryhards. All Blizzard did was show the casual playerbase that they were willing to throw then under a bus, and then the casuals left as well.

We know the taste of what you want, and its taste is shite. So, no, don't try to turn our game into your shite-filled tail chase.

[Zabuza]

We know the taste of what you want, and its taste is shite. So, no, don't try to turn our game into your shite-filled tail chase.

Meanwhile you invaded and destroyed the entire genre we used to love, but that's fine, right? My FFXI was ruined thanks to the casual conversion. You invaded it and now want us to have nothing.

[Klb600]

Honestly Mr "Forever_learning." You are misconstruing everything we have been saying. Yes you have your right to disagree, just like we have every right to criticize portion of the game. Make of that what you will, honestly I further no need to try to convince you of anything.

Quite frankly you seem distraught for next to no real reason.

Practically foaming at the mouth.

Listen, I don't care what you or how you define endgame.

In truth we are all Forever learning, but that title seems to be most appropriate to you, since you refuse to educate yourself on the set and defined meaning of words and terminology. I have no further interest of arguing semantics with you.

[Seddrinth]

https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed

Is this you? You said 4 savage bosses are not enough for you but I don't see you clearing any tiers ever. Also you only killed ex titania/innocence 7 times each and are grey parse. So looks like there are plenty of end game stuff for you to still accomplish. I mean, if you are gold parser/ultimate legend/clear every tier within week 1 or 2 then you have merits to your complaints, but if you haven't cleared any tiers and are grey parser then it seems funny for you to complain about lack of end game. If this is not you then I am mistaken.

[Forever_Learning]

In truth we are all Forever learning, but that title seems to be most appropriate to you, since you refuse to educate yourself on the set and defined meaning of words and terminology. I have no further interest of arguing semantics with you.

That's exactly my point. You want to define things in a certain way that serve your argument, and when I point out you are hiding behind self-made definitions and semantics, you turn to making an entire post only about me.

Why? Because you know you have lost the argument, and because I refuse to agree that the only content worth doing is the content you deem 'end-game content'

Since page 1, people have basically told you they are ok with the your perceived lack of end-game content because they do various other pieces of content, and the rebuttle is always "that doesn't count'

Sorry, it does count. Crafting, gathering, mount collecting, housing, all that content counts, especially when people in WoW are salivating for housing as something to do which would also help professions in that game.

It's funny how over on the WoW forums there are often threads requesting more casual content to do, while people in FF14 over here are asking for the dungeons and raids from WoW.

Why don't the people who prefer casual style content go spend more time in FF14, while the hardcore of FF14 goes over to WoW.

In truth, I know the answer. The amount of people doing so-called casual content is much larger than those seeking something like ultimate.

Thus, you need up hearing about all these WoW refugees going over to FF14 or ESO - very little refugees going from those games to WoW however.

[Klb600]

That's exactly my point. You want to define things in a certain way that serve your argument, and when I point out you are hiding behind self-made definitions and semantics, you turn to making an entire post only about me.

Why? Because you know you have lost the argument, and because I refuse to agree that the only content worth doing is the content you deem 'end-game content'

No because there is no point in convincing a man whose blind to his own delusions.

[Catwho]

In 1.0 and 2.0 launch, there was an absolute drought of endgame content. 1.0 only had the Nael Van Darnus fight as the conclusion to the (very very basic) story until the servers blew up. No other dungeons or raids or anything. (Dungeons were open world, for that matter, much like they were at XI.)

When 2.0 launched, the only content we had beyond Castrum and Praetorium was Wanderer's Palace, the hard mode primals, and Coil 1-5. Had to wait until 2.1 for extreme primals and Labyrinth of the Ancients.

5.0's immediate content isn't actually that much more than 2.0 when I lay it out like that, but the difference is that there's all the old content there that can still be done. Yeah, it's not current progression content, but you can either try soloing it for a fun challenge (I do this with old dungeons and primals all the time) or getting a group of others also interested in a challenge and dropping down to min iLvl.

[Hawklaser]

Truthfully, the game needs both the fluff content and the difficult end game content.

The fluff content is what makes the world feel alive, and its the stuff that keeps you coming back time and time again. The fluff is stuff like the ambiance of Xi Tah and Ifrit's Cauldron in 11, the awesome rock music when you fight Titan, the coblyn minion miners can dig up, the lore of the Tonberries in the Sch job quests. That is what attaches you to the game.

The difficult end game content is there for the gameplay and to challenge us. Without it, we are essentially using a glorified chat room. For some, the MSQ is more than plenty, others need bonus optional dungeons, and then some need to go even farther beyond that, much like how some in FFT were not happy with just beating the game or the deep dungeon, they also had to see if they could do it with ability-less calculators. All because they loved the game enough to see just how good they could get at it.

So maybe instead of debating over if fluff or difficult content is more valuable, might we not be better served by trying to find a better solution to the problem of how content is consumed faster than it is created without resorting to some of the bad systems mobile games use to gate player progression?

[Saidosha]

Meanwhile you invaded and destroyed the entire genre we used to love, but that's fine, right? My FFXI was ruined thanks to the casual conversion. You invaded it and now want us to have nothing.

Yeeeeeeah, I'm gonna have to cut you off there.

Casuals did not ruin FFXI. Abyssea or the level cap increases didn't "ruin" FFXI, either, despite the frequent claim of such.

It was evident near the tail end of ToAU that something was up in content development. Things were getting rushed or scrapped entirely. Eventually we learned that SE was making XIV as yet another MMO, helmed by the same guy who lead XI, the questionably infamous Hiromichi Tanaka. This presented a quite evident drain on FFXI resources, and the attention the game needed to continue to properly flourish in its own ways. Instead, when we finally learned about WotG, it stretched on and on and on and on to the point it took years for them to actually finish the main story content with it. 1.0 here also bombs pretty hard despite no shortage of beta feedback, which sends SE into panic mode because now they pretty much have to remake a game, and not just an RPG, but MMORPG. FFXI further suffers content release drought because all hands on deck are primarily trying to salvage XIV. Abyssea runs its plotted course, but there's still no real future in sight. Voidwatch tries to be that sort of old school HNM with a pop system style, but feels horribly received between the proc system, lights, and utterly craptastic reward scheme. Such also began the creep of the mandatory RME, particularly for melee jobs, which very much screamed anti-casual gating by people who favored short-term success over longer-term community health.

I'm sure this assertion may sound strange, but people do like having things to do. For players like myself who pretty much exhausted the entirety of the endgame content they cared for, camping Fafhogg yet again was not something we looked forward to, yet another night of Dynamis was just hours of blah, I had no reason to run Nyzul, Salvage, or whatever else because I had all the gear I wanted, and in some cases, wound up with just because no one else wanted it. Sandworm and Ixion, as they came with WotG, weren't really anymore engaging despite the obvious "counterbot" logic of their spawning mechanics that people just got around with POS hacking anyway. And in some cases people would deliberately spook the latter so another shell couldn't claim. They tried some niche things like Wanted NMs or the earlier and very poorly received etched gear NMs, but there was still ultimately a point where they could no longer really fit sidegrades into the equation. Further so with how restrictive XI's inventory system was, and to some degree, still is. Imagine getting an Adaman Hauberk in 2005 and it still being BiS in 2009. Sure, you get your mileage out of it for the jobs that could equip it, but that also said there were literally 4 years of play where there was no improvement for the slot for its purpose. It didn't matter, however, if SE released a statistical equivalent of an Adaberk+2 or went the route they did with the cap increase, though. People were going to complain because their Adaberks were no longer BiS or just try to skip it entirely for the new version. Just as people complained about RMEs being briefly antiquated earlier in Adoulin due to absent ilvl upgrades. For whatever nonsensical reason, in games that literally thrive on the concept of continuously evolving with new content, some people think that when they're "done" that that should be it an anything that threatens that sentiment is bad.

No, what "ruined" FFXI for some was that they could no longer rest on their laurels. Content was no longer so stringently bottlenecked to timed spawns, insane gil costs, or in the case of Abyssea, not needing 6+ people, many of which you may not have liked but still had to tolerate. The way people leveled up changed, regardless of how some may have felt about key leeches, by effectively tripling EXP party sizes and minimizing the competitive aspect that far too often made things like Mamools or Colibri camps a chore. You didn't need a BRD. You didn't a RDM. Heck, you didn't even really need a tank. People were simply free to actually play their jobs, and with certain atma combinations, in quirky ways the rest of the game would dare not allow. And sure, some mobs were optimal sources of certain things, but there were also alternatives. Were Brews silly? Sure. Needed? Nope. Regardless of how this shook up how people played, there was still the inevitable lack of new content once people leveled all they wanted to, merited them out, +2'd their Empyrean sets, and picked up other odds and ends. At least until Adoulin, and even then some would call that spotty with a not-very-intuitive weakness system or the balance that went into the final tier Delve NMs.

Nonetheless, there were still all the reasons why FFXI never went on to "beat" WoW and wound up more the niche MMO. It was pretty much all but impossible to converse with SE until the OF, certainly to mixed success. Tanaka had his vision, with balance the memed scapegoat for some weird decisions over time. We had bonehead mobs like AV and PW. A lot of people hated paying to play a game they couldn't actually play because solo self-sufficiency was a highly limited thing (BSTs, SMNs, BLMs, and other things that waxed and waned over time). Some people being adamant XI didn't "count" as a FF game because it was online and locked behind the sub. People got chased out by CoP thanks to all the level caps and zero incentive for strangers to backtrack for help. And on and on and on. While it's super easy to just scoff a retort of some equivalent "It's just not their game, then!" line, I'd be more apt to assert that FFXI would be in an even worse state than it is now if they stayed the 75 cap course, never implemented Trusts, removed things like the CoP caps, and basically realized that maybe players being able to do all these things that exist without being shackled to an endgame shell might not be the end of the world. Pine about the good ol' days some other vets might, but the conditions that went behind that era no longer exist. XI found out what it's like to have more than just WoW to compete against. People learned things could be different, better, and to be blunt, accommodating. Lessons learned for 2.0 here, even if painful.