Lack of End Game Content

[Misutoraru]

Well, maybe because Twitch viewers are interested in watching a show? Fighting a raid boss is a show, a race for a World First is a show, no matter how many people in game are actually participating in said activity.
Doing the same trial x99 for a mount, farming 100500 resources to craft and make gil, decorating a house while 10 times rearranging the south wall - all these are not a show for the Twitch users, though still a very valuable activity for lots and lots FFXIV players.

This, I sub to quite a few YouTube channel keep watching their walkthrough, but never have the intention to buy or play that game.
Some people just have a very busy life and enjoy watching

[ApolloGenX]

No, I think they intend for casuals to cancel and the resub later when there is more content....

[Xatsh]

No, I think they intend for casuals to cancel and the resub later when there is more content....

Casuals are not the ones running out of content. Game has tons of stuff for the casual crowd, more so then most mmos.

[Catwho]

The 98 pages of threads have taught me one thing: The debate is not really "casuals" vs "hardcore." Since by their own admission, the "hardcore" people are the ones that run out of content first and either unsub or go play another game while they wait.

It's "raiders who only like challenging endgame battle content" vs "completionists who enjoy PvE timesinks."

I guarantee you that the PvE timesink people are the ones who generate more money for SE (due to constant Mogstation infusions and paying for 10 retainers to hold all their stuff), who have more hours logged (I apparently hit 700 days recently), and who probably have more accomplishments in the game, even if those accomplishments don't include UWU, a Feast ranking, or a world first savage win.

Once again, though: I think the raiders do deserve more content. Due to the nature of software development, adding that content is not easy because they cannot clone experienced battle content programmers, and sometimes they can't even hire them for any price. But if SE has to prioritize one thing, taking into account the iron triangle of software development, I'm okay with raiding being the one thing that gets some extra love. Twelve knows I've still got plenty of other things to do.

Just don't call me a "casual" as an insult because I choose to spend my 30 hours a week in this game fishing or leveling up alternative jobs or grinding out of date anima weapons for the achievements.

[MonteCristo]

The 98 pages of threads have taught me one thing: The debate is not really "casuals" vs "hardcore." Since by their own admission, the "hardcore" people are the ones that run out of content first and either unsub or go play another game while they wait.

It's "raiders who only like challenging endgame battle content" vs "completionists who enjoy PvE timesinks."

I guarantee you that the PvE timesink people are the ones who generate more money for SE (due to constant Mogstation infusions and paying for 10 retainers to hold all their stuff), who have more hours logged (I apparently hit 700 days recently), and who probably have more accomplishments in the game, even if those accomplishments don't include UWU, a Feast ranking, or a world first savage win.

Once again, though: I think the raiders do deserve more content. Due to the nature of software development, adding that content is not easy because they cannot clone experienced battle content programmers, and sometimes they can't even hire them for any price. But if SE has to prioritize one thing, taking into account the iron triangle of software development, I'm okay with raiding being the one thing that gets some extra love. Twelve knows I've still got plenty of other things to do.

Just don't call me a "casual" as an insult because I choose to spend my 30 hours a week in this game fishing or leveling up alternative jobs or grinding out of date anima weapons for the achievements.

Standing ovation

[Avraym]

The 98 pages of threads have taught me one thing: The debate is not really "casuals" vs "hardcore." Since by their own admission, the "hardcore" people are the ones that run out of content first and either unsub or go play another game while they wait.

It's "raiders who only like challenging endgame battle content" vs "completionists who enjoy PvE timesinks."

I guarantee you that the PvE timesink people are the ones who generate more money for SE (due to constant Mogstation infusions and paying for 10 retainers to hold all their stuff), who have more hours logged (I apparently hit 700 days recently), and who probably have more accomplishments in the game, even if those accomplishments don't include UWU, a Feast ranking, or a world first savage win.

Once again, though: I think the raiders do deserve more content. Due to the nature of software development, adding that content is not easy because they cannot clone experienced battle content programmers, and sometimes they can't even hire them for any price. But if SE has to prioritize one thing, taking into account the iron triangle of software development, I'm okay with raiding being the one thing that gets some extra love. Twelve knows I've still got plenty of other things to do.

Just don't call me a "casual" as an insult because I choose to spend my 30 hours a week in this game fishing or leveling up alternative jobs or grinding out of date anima weapons for the achievements.

I think your observation is fair. I don't understand elitist people using casual as an insult term either.

A lot of players, simply prefer less challenging, more time sink orientated gameplay and I think that's perfectly fine, especially given a lot of them only play "x" amount of hours a week.

But I personally consider myself a mixture of both a "raider who only like challenging endgame battle content" and a "completionist who enjoy PvE timesinks."

I'll usually unlock most/all side content, max all classes, make the most out of my dailies/weeklies.

I still enjoy it - but find myself quickly running out of reasons to do endgame battle content (given how little there is and how quickly you can achieve what you need with what we have).

The game certainly does a better job at sating the PvE timeskink rather than end game battle content.

[Hawklaser]

I think your observation is fair. I don't understand elitist people using casual as an insult term either.

A lot of players, simply prefer less challenging, more time sink orientated gameplay and I think that's perfectly fine, especially given a lot of them only play "x" amount of hours a week.

But I personally consider myself a mixture of both a "raider who only like challenging endgame battle content" and a "completionist who enjoy PvE timesinks."

I'll usually unlock most/all side content, max all classes, make the most out of my dailies/weeklies.

I still enjoy it - but find myself quickly running out of reasons to do endgame battle content (given how little there is and how quickly you can achieve what you need with what we have).

The game certainly does a better job at sating the PvE timeskink rather than end game battle content.

I have always kinda found it an odd mix of both. The more time sink stuff for the shorter work days as it can usually be done in smaller time chunks without issue, and the bigger more challenging content on my days with more free time. As I expect to need more than a couple of hours for challenging content, either because its hard enough to take a few attempts to complete, or its just longer and takes a bit more time in general.

As to why I think we keep running into the lack of meaningful endgame content, it has to do with some of the discussion about dungeon design in that other thread I mentioned earlier. There is really no variation as we only got one tool to solve dungeons with, kill all the mobs. About the only new challenge in any content is new and unusual mechanics, and that lasts how long? After that its just a memory game and avoid the bad spots, unless they start doing unscripted bosses. Guess what that means for difficulty? It boils down to how consistently can you perform at a certain level. Maybe its not difficulty in the traditional Easy/Normal/Hard (aka Extreme, Savage, Ultimate) slider that we need more on the higher end, but the other Simple/Normal/Complex slider that some overlook that more is needed on the higher end, after all it is kinda rare for mechanics to get more involved than move to point A or B depending on a debuff.

[Adventica6]

Complete all the content in the game, with screenshots, then come back here, not before.

[Zabuza]

Complete all the content in the game, with screenshots, then come back here, not before.

How many times are people going to repeat this tired argument? There's a difference between being a completionist and being someone who enjoys a challenge.

[HyoMinPark]

How many times are people going to repeat this tired argument? There's a difference between being a completionist and being someone who enjoys a challenge.

To be fair, people have been telling the OP to go do Ultimate, which is the ultimate challenge that this game can offer. And his argument varies between “It’s not level 80 and therefore doesn’t count as endgame content” to “It’s not worth it because the weapons are irrelevant and don’t give good stats”.