Alot of hate on new job iterations o.O

[Taranok]

I like this chart, and as an ex-AST main, I can safely say the sentiment has been pretty much the same in the Healers' forum.

If we isolate this in just role, I don't know what SE was thinking to break 2 out 3 only healing jobs in the game. 66% of their healing player base are clearly extremely dissatisfied with the changes on their main role, and that explains why there's an increase in Healing AIN recently.

Healing is a stressful job as it is and removing what made it fun didn't help. I have retired my Astrometer for now in favour if my Red Rapier. Because apparently SE only knows how to make the DPS classes fun to play.

The AST cards were also just a badly implemented, incredibly clunky system in SB and HW where you basically built for exactly one combo, and everything else was settling for an inferior option. The new system is an improvement....kind of, it needs work still. But that's not my main point.

The main point is that healing is stressful, but the reason for it being stressful is that the devs accidentally overpowered healers to begin with, which has forced an arms race ever since Heavensward that has basically turned every single damage mechanic into one of 3 choices: You die if you fail it, You die if you fail several mechanics in a row (sometimes no matter what after the first failure), and everyone (or the tank) is hit to within an inch of their life and you have to basically top them off within 2 GCDs.

Well, as it so turns out, when AST launched in HW, it literally couldn't do its job as a healer because the sheer volume of outgoing damage was so utterly insane that AST lacked the tools required to do the job. SCH also lacked them, but not nearly to the degree AST did. And as of ShB, the bar has pushed so far to this extreme that...the 3 healers may as well be the same class at this point. The only difference is whether you cast your spells before damage goes out, or after damage goes out. But if you don't heal at the right time, it will fail and people will die, because the damage is just that insane.

Healing is stressful because the devs chose to push healing and encounter design in a way that leads towards massively homogenized healers with insanely overpowered spells that can full heal the entire party from 1 hp to full in about 2 GCDs. And until that's addressed, it will remain this incredibly stressful, binary experience.

[ShadowNyx3]

I'm saying they could make that change tomorrow, and we'd get by, like we always did. Fairweather blackmages would go back to whatever DPS is 'the best' and those of us on still on it would adjust.

This is an extremely condescending way to treat people who are just looking for something to enjoy. Calling someone "fair-weather" is nothing more than an attempt to justify the worth of your own dedication by putting down others. It's quite analogous to sports where fans of a team will deride people for being fair-weather when their team is terrible, while those "fair-weather fans" are simply not willing to waste their time and money on a team that's not providing them enjoyment. It's great if you can get by and stick with something til it eventually pays off because it will likely feel better when it does for having gone through the tough times, and you should enjoy that instead of worrying about what other people are doing for their own enjoyment.

Snip

You've definitely hit it on the head with how separating Phoenix from PWT would be the better route to a more manageable rotation. If Summoner is going to be plagued with a punishing potency drop from Ruin III to Ruin II and a plethora of off globals to press, the trances should be acting like BLM's Triplecast for movement and weaving, especially because they do not have damage buffs anymore. Of course everyone seems to love the current PWT and I myself would rather see unique Phoenix and Bahamut phases, so I think that the real focus should be on overhauling DWT into that movement and weaving tool it should be, without having to use it on CD for maintaining the core rotation.

[Kabooa]

This is an extremely condescending way to treat people who are just looking for something to enjoy. Calling someone "fair-weather" is nothing more than an attempt to justify the worth of your own dedication by putting down others. It's quite analogous to sports where fans of a team will deride people for being fair-weather when their team is terrible, while those "fair-weather fans" are simply not willing to waste their time and money on a team that's not providing them enjoyment. It's great if you can get by and stick with something til it eventually pays off because it will likely feel better when it does for having gone through the tough times, and you should enjoy that instead of worrying about what other people are doing for their own enjoyment.

You took too much from that.

[SpeckledBurd]

some people complained, but that doesn't explain why people are less satisfied now, if that was really the main problem with the class. It's one skill on a 90 second cool down. That does not make or break a class. Personally i liked weaving skills for big damage, and actually felt faster until i ran out of ogcds, but even if i didn't like it, i wouldn't say a class wasn't fun because of something that happens once every 90 seconds, that i don't even have to use if i really hate it.

the problem is, they no longer have cool/fun mechanics and synergies that the player is trying to achieve/pull off. All you are trying to do is maintain the same combo we learned in arr.

in SB it actually felt like you were in control of your gl, and you had a couple different mechanics to pull of for satisfying dmg.

imo, they could change riddle, but whatever change they make needs to be more interesting than +15% for a little while every 90 seconds. Also the idea that monks ultimate goal is just to be doing a basic 6 skill rotation 20% faster is never going to be as interesting as other jobs.

Frankly Monk in Shadowbringers has a lot of problems and any number of things could be the sticking point, including Riddle of Fire.

It could be that the devs acted like they were taking feedback on the job by admitting that Stormblood Monk was a poor iteration and then changing nothing about it.

If you were part of the minority that liked Riddle of Fire, the fact that there's just nothing to weave in it might make the job feel bad for you.

It could be how the devs prioritized making the Tornado Kick rotation impossible to the detriment of the entire kit instead of just changing how TK works, hamstringing Monks ability to recover stacks in dungeons.

It could be that this is the second expansion in a row where Monk has seen nothing new added to it rotationally while we lost skills that were part of that rotation.

It could be that the job has a psychotic focus on giving us overly situational Greased Lightning upkeep tools instead of just making the ones we have work.

[KingofDunkshire]

Before you call someones post dumb and act like you actually know anything, you might want some reading comprehension before you talk at all mmkay.

1. Oh no they made tanking easier, what will we ever do. That's one of the most pointless arguments ever. Yea lets make the least played role in every MMORPG HARDER. Literally most tanks (as in the majority) now actually like the enmity change. Ironically the only people who hate the change are the same healing narcissists who cry about wanting to dps as healers.

2. Again cry me a river, if you think healing is boring, play something else. Your job as a healer is to heal, you think a tank wants to heal as well as tank?, you think a dps wants to tank as dpsing? no. You're only seeing narcissist healers crying on the matter and if you think healing is boring, luckily there's two other roles you can play as.

3. A lot of support dps abilities had to be removed cause only certain comps would work well together (like brd/drg), while having one of the duo could gimp your raid. Then you had Nin which was almost a must for 2 expansions cause of TA, spite it having really really bad personal dps. BRD has been getting shafted for years in terms of support abilities and it's nothing new, it's actually just showing SE doesn't know how to deal with BRDS. Also the "support" role is pretty much dead in MMORPGs cause it messes with the trinity system. Also this game is heavy on the meta play, do you know how bad it was to be a SAM in SB cause you only brought dps and no buffs/debuffs even though it was the 2nd best dps in the game.

4. Again read what I fraking posted, literally most classes (outside of AST, which I'll talk about in a sec) have insane ability bloat even after they removed skills so they had to tone them down. Only BRD and maybe 1 or 2 other jobs have been made "simpler" and MCH is one of them, which is something it drastically needed (and literally I've seen nothing but love for the new MCH) while the other one is WHM. When you have to use 25+ hot keys for a class.....that's not being in ANY shape or form being simplistic. In fact having too much stuff to do is actually making SMN and NIN more of a burden to play.

As for AST, having 3 cards do the same thing is a bit overkill and yes it made the card system not actually beneficial but that's not even close to being the main issues plaguing AST atm, you have a over 500 hps difference between WHM and AST, you have longer cds on AST compared to WHM and SCH cds, it's like why. Then you have the issue AST has to use it's gcds more than the other two healers on top of it's toolkit being not as good or even close to being good compared to SCH and WHM.

[Xieldras]

.

Someone posted calmly about why they disliked some changes, you attacked their post insultingly (and to a certain degree the poster itself) and I replied with satire to your post while explaining my own stance on those points. Then you double down on the insults in this post and attack me as well while you're the one acting like you know more. That's pathetic.

Your post could be TL;DR as: "It's perfect, shut up, leave if you don't like it" and "your tears give me life". Also TIL I'm a narcissist DPS-only healer for disliking the enmity changes (my only healer is CNJ at lv23). People understand the changes, doesn't mean they have to agree with them. It's called disagreement.

(Sidenote: I didn't call your post dumb, you called the post of who you replied to dumb. I satirically called your post uninformed, which has a different meaning believe it or not).

[Hatstand]

2. Again cry me a river, if you think healing is boring, play something else. Your job as a healer is to heal, you think a tank wants to heal as well as tank?, you think a dps wants to tank as dpsing? no. You're only seeing narcissist healers crying on the matter and if you think healing is boring, luckily there's two other roles you can play as.

You think tanks want to dps as well as a dps? No! It's high time that SE addresses the flood of tanks begging for pure tanking and removes all but, say, 3-5 of each tank's dps moves. They should have emnity generating rotations and defensive cooldowns. After all, it's their job to hold emnity and manage their defence, not to deal damage!

Note sarcasm. I would never want this to happen to tanks any more than I wanted healers to be gutted.

It's not narcissism to want your job to be fun, or to want to be able to optimise. I freely admit I'm not the best healer, but I'd like room to improve, and right now I feel like I'm hitting my head on the drastically lowered skill ceiling. Tanks put crit and det materia in their gear over tenacity (I assume) because they've realised that if they're not dying more defence will not make them any better at their job. Doing more damage will. Healers have realised the same thing. Once people are not dying, the best thing we can do is deal damage, because any more healing would be ultimately without effect. This means that we currently practice healing with the goal of spending more time on a two button spam. Which is not fun. And then there's solo content, which currently consists of using four buttons (DoT, nuke, AoE, heal of choice).

Edit: To be clear, no healer I've talked to wants to have as much damage output as a dps. What we want is for whatever damage we do to not be delivered through a method that could be performed by a drinking bird

[Taranok]

All I really want out of tanking is for tanks to feel like tanks, not wannabe DPS. Granted they should have something approaching a satisfying DPS rotation, but the best tanking rotations I've ever experienced are ones where your best DPS rotation has you constantly mitigating damage as well, because active damage mitigation as a constant mechanic you are always doing actually feels really good as a tank.

But this ties into the biggest problem FFXIV actually has: The encounter design is forcing the dev's hand on tank and healer design, which is in turn forcing the hand on encounter design to have this really weird, binary, bursty meta that is simultaneously incredibly boring and incredibly frustrating for the tank and healer jobs. And it's all exemplified by busters. When the only thing you have to do to survive a mechanic is to press a button to not die, you're going to have a very binary mechanic. Healers are at their best when they have to creatively adapt to an environment with limited power skills, and tanks feel at their best when threat isn't an issue, but when their entire job is to reduce the amount of damage they take from the boss to give the healers breathing room.