Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[Lyth]

Basically, whatever puts us in line with whoever is in second place. I don't want to be the highest damage tank, I just want to be in range of them.

[RyuDragnier]

Basically, whatever puts us in line with whoever is in second place. I don't want to be the highest damage tank, I just want to be in range of them.

We should have been there to begin with. The damage listings should have WAR at the top, then DRK, then GNB, then PLD. Right now it's reversed for some weird reason.

[Chrono_Rising]

I could not agree more Lyth and I just want to expand on some of these thoughts because I feel my OP wasn't particularly clear on some things.

DRK does need a slight dps boost. Instead of potency increases, though, I think that the best place to do it would be to add a small amount of baseline MP to Bloodspiller/Quietus, and have Delirium boost that MP generation. Just enough to generate 2-3 more Edge/Floods per minute.

Cannot point out enough Blood Weapon is a great way to adjust us in two respects. At a 30 second recast this gives us alittle more oGCD weave and generates just a tad more potency. Along with fixing the 10 seconds timing issue this should set us up to be in a much stronger spot. Even then I have a feeling we will need a slight bump and Bloodspiller mana generation is a great place to accomplish this and recapture some of the blood into mana and mana into blood gameplay.

Living Dead needs to be adjusted. We need UI elements to show how much required healing is needed at a bare minimum.

Alternatively if we are being balanced based on how defensive we are, the balancing team should recognize that Living Dead is at least as bad for team resources as TBN is good. On that note, Dark Knight is still hurting in the fluff mitigation department and TBN is not well suited for this. This means that in boss fights and raids if we are expected to main tank we are going to be less able to deal with auto attack damage than our counterparts who have risk free mitigations they can spam to take care of the fluff as well as having more powerful oGCD self heals to deal with said flugg damage.

I wouldn't mind Dark Mind/Missionary if the devs designed fights like they previously did, where there was a mix of physical and magical damage going out. But if you're going to design a purely physical fight (including physical AoEs) for an end of tier fight, it just doesn't work. What's the advantage of Dark Missionary/Heart of Light over Divine Veil and Shake it Off? It's not like you get a recast advantage in a purely magic fight. But if the fight involves purely physical AoEs, then you're pretty much stuck. That's not a trade-off, it's a flat disadvantage.

Either DV/SiO need to be on a 120 second recast, or Dark Missionary/HoL need to work on physical damage. I don't mind Dark Mind so much because of the fact that TBN is so good, but the raidwide damage is going to be an issue.

Once again we see this risk with no reward design. Both Gun Breaker and Dark Knight are put into this situation in which they are liabilities if we get a physical turn like e4 looks to be. If I remember correctly, most magical aoes are in a one and done form. In order for the % based mitigation to come close to the mitigation provided by shields we need to see a magical aoe which is spammed and hits hard enough that it will require healing for the majority of players hp. The only recent example that comes to mind is o10s for the shared ahk morn, but I don't think this came close to hitting dps or healers for nearly all their hp. Even if we do start seeing aoes that hit for the damage of say o12s repeatedly, will it be frequent enough to outweigh the risks and lowered mitigation on other turns? If we are going to be pigeonholed into mitigating only one type of damage for a party, shouldn't we bring something to the table? Personally I would like that thing to be dps.

[Jandor]

We should have been there to begin with. The damage listings should have WAR at the top, then DRK, then GNB, then PLD. Right now it's reversed for some weird reason.

Why should WAR be higher than DRK?

They're not harder to play, don't seem to be bring notably less party utility, and the berserker archetype lore goes both ways tbh. Inner beast vs. inner darkness.

[RyuDragnier]

Why should WAR be higher than DRK?

They're not harder to play, don't seem to be bring notably less party utility, and the berserker archetype lore goes both ways tbh. Inner beast vs. inner darkness.

Let's look at Utility.

PLD has Cover, allowing it to take all damage another party member will get for the next 12s. It has Divine Veil, which gives a 10% max HP shield to all party members within 15 yalms of you when you're healed. It has Clemency, a 1200 potency heal it can use on anybody. It has Intervention, allowing it to reduce damage of a party member by 10% or more depending on whether or not you have Rampart/Sentinel up. Finally, it has Passage of Arms, giving themselves a guaranteed block while it's up and everybody behind them gets a 15% damage reduction. That's 5 utility skills, and it's currently doing the most damage.

GNB has Aurora, a HoT regen it can throw on anybody. It has Heart of Light, a 10% magic damage reduction to the party. It has Heart of Stone, reducing damage taken by 15% for whoever you throw it on. That's 3 utility skills, and is the 2nd highest DPS.

DRK has The Blackest Night, which puts on a 25% max HP shield on whoever it's thrown on. It has Dark Missionary, which is a 10% magic damage reduction for the party. That's only 2 utility skills, and so this one should be looked at for doing more damage because it doesn't have much utility at all, and is the 3rd place damage.

WAR has Shake It Off, a 12% max HP shield for the party that can be buffed up to 18% if you have Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, and Raw Intuition up when you use it. It has Nascent Flash, which reduces damage of target party member by 10% and heals them for half of the damage you take while it's up. That's 2 utility skills, it's currently the LOWEST DPS of the tanks, and is definitely in need of a damage buff.

You see the problem? Tanks with more utility are doing more damage than tanks that have barely any utility. That's backwards logic, and so DPS changes are needed for the tanks. Though rather than nerf PLD and GNB damage, I'd prefer if they just buffed DRK and WAR damage. Though in terms of where the placing of DRK and WAR damage should be when compared to each other, I'd prefer if they were equal or really close to each other. But let's be honest, DRK should probably be the top damage since Dark Missionary is heavily situational due to it being only magic damage reduction, meaning some fights like E4 it's completely useless in (I'm fairly certain all the damage in that fight is physical).

[Chrono_Rising]

Though in terms of where the placing of DRK and WAR damage should be when compared to each other, I'd prefer if they were equal or really close to each other. But let's be honest, DRK should probably be the top damage since Dark Missionary is heavily situational due to it being only magic damage reduction, meaning some fights like E4 it's completely useless in (I'm fairly certain all the damage in that fight is physical).

I actually don't think he was wondering why you think the order of tank dps was wrong, I think he just means why does Warrior have to be top dps here? I think you kinda came to the opposite conclusion as well in this post ending with either really close or dark knight higher since dark missionary is more situational and nascent flash may not mitigate as much as TBN but it can restore a huge amount of HP.

On that note I would like to see Nascent flash buffed to heal the warrior and target for the same or nearly the same amount of HP.

[Jandor]

I actually don't think he was wondering why you think the order of tank dps was wrong, I think he just means why does Warrior have to be top dps here? I think you kinda came to the opposite conclusion as well in this post ending with either really close or dark knight higher since dark missionary is more situational and nascent flash may not mitigate as much as TBN but it can restore a huge amount of HP.

Pretty much, I think the automatic assumption that WAR should be top DPS tank could do with reevaluating.

It made sense back in HW, and to a degree in SB, but is it still fully the case now? We all positive we're not just calling for it because that's the way it has always been?

[MrSmiley]

Pretty much, I think the automatic assumption that WAR should be top DPS tank could do with reevaluating.

It made sense back in HW, and to a degree in SB, but is it still fully the case now? We all positive we're not just calling for it because that's the way it has always been?

What should they be though? They don't really fit into anything and also are now bad damage on top.

[garret_hawke]

WAR his a burst job so it should be at best middle of the pack on paper but able to pull ahead in non-full uptime fights unlike SB where the job had biggest dps on both.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Not having Dark Passenger at level 40 feels really bad especially when leveling and you get a level 40-50 dungeon...