Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[shao32]

I like a lot of these idea's. Though I have to ask. Would Delirium removing mp cost not be an dps lost? Maybe if it did crit, direct hit bonus it would be an upgrade or if they made it like a 20 seconds buff.

not really, remember bloodspiller is a GCD and edge/flood are oGCD, in any case would be a dps gain and probably need a little nerf wich will be a overalll better desing bcs it will make TBN punishment a bit less harsh on the process.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Hmm, some other minor adjustments I'd make:

Abyssal Drain holds 2 charges, Quietus reduces the cooldown by 5s for every target hit.

Delirium reduces MP costs by 100%, instead of removing Blood costs. For a brief window filled with that vintage DA spam feel, but with Edge/Flood instead of DA.

Living Shadow will sometimes use deleted fan favourite animations like Scourge, just to mess with people.

In response to this post I have some criticisms;

For Abyssal Drain it would suffer the same problem that Plunge suffers right now, which makes me ask "Why does Plunge even have charges if it's basically going to be used whenever just 1 charge is ready like it used to be before it got a second charge?"

For Delirium... it's still a fell cleave spam...

For Living Shadow, you are asking to open an entire can of worms that the devs don't want to open right there.

[Jandor]

I like a lot of these idea's. Though I have to ask. Would Delirium removing mp cost not be an dps lost? Maybe if it did crit, direct hit bonus it would be an upgrade or if they made it like a 20 seconds buff.

Suppose it would be a DPS loss if you capped MP during the delirium window, better make sure you spend enough MP before hitting the Delirium button. Least it gives you something to think about on DRK.

In response to this post I have some criticisms;

For Abyssal Drain it would suffer the same problem that Plunge suffers right now, which makes me ask "Why does Plunge even have charges if it's basically going to be used whenever just 1 charge is ready like it used to be before it got a second charge?"

For Delirium... it's still a fell cleave spam...

For Living Shadow, you are asking to open an entire can of worms that the devs don't want to open right there.

Charges on AD serve two purposes, you can hold one back for the healing aspect in big pulls without losing DPS, and you can use two back-to-back on single targets so that the heal isn't quite so lame.

Delirium, well it'd probably feel more like the Machinist spam window what with it being an oGCD, but even then it wouldn't be identical because you'd still be doing your regular abilities as normal.
Mostly though I just don't want to ask for anything too radical because I don't want to wait till 6.0.

Living Shadow suggestion is a joke

[Gojin]

I want living shadow to actually look like my character.

[TheForce]

oh another drk topic

the job is fine.
if you don't like the way it works play a different tank
also i see lot's of "wrong" opinions cause they are based on wrong information. please understand the class first before you judge it.

with that out of the way: yes, even i wouldn't mind a change of living dead

I've been seeing your posts around a bit lately, and in each one you always have such a cynical attitude and try to basically belittle the OP for creating the thread. It's pretty annoying honestly, and makes you seem very unlikeable, but aside from that, from a straight performance standpoint (meaning how well the class can work its way through content and whether it can even clear content) the Dark Knight is...okay. It's not like the group is doomed if there's a DRK Tank, and they do have a FEW neat skills (mainly just TBN though). At the same time though, they have some pretty horrid skills that need to be looked at (mainly LD and 5.0 base Quietus). Nonetheless, the problem that I and many others have with the class is with its overall design. Sure, the class can clear content, but will it be enjoyable or feel satisfying while you do so? I'll admit this is a somewhat subjective point, but to me, it's silly to think that a class being essentially a night-themed version of a class that already exists while also having less tools and options than said class, is okay. At the end of the day, sure people will enjoy what they enjoy, but ignoring Dark Knight's obvious design shortcomings is a problem.


That being said, I've accepted that the core design of the new DRK (which is exactly what I despise) probably won't change, so my response to that was to pull a Cecil :P

[DemonicNeko]

I've been seeing your posts around a bit lately, and in each one you always have such a cynical attitude and try to basically belittle the OP for creating the thread. It's pretty annoying honestly, and makes you seem very unlikeable, but aside from that, from a straight performance standpoint (meaning how well the class can work its way through content and whether it can even clear content) the Dark Knight is...okay. It's not like the group is doomed if there's a DRK Tank, and they do have a FEW neat skills (mainly just TBN though). At the same time though, they have some pretty horrid skills that need to be looked at (mainly LD and 5.0 base Quietus). Nonetheless, the problem that I and many others have with the class is with its overall design. Sure, the class can clear content, but will it be enjoyable or feel satisfying while you do so? I'll admit this is a somewhat subjective point, but to me, it's silly to think that a class being essentially a night-themed version of a class that already exists while also having less tools and options than said class, is okay. At the end of the day, sure people will enjoy what they enjoy, but ignoring Dark Knight's obvious design shortcomings is a problem.


That being said, I've accepted that the core design of the new DRK (which is exactly what I despise) probably won't change, so my response to that was to pull a Cecil :P

I hope it chances. I hope they add more buttons to push. Honestly I switch over to Paladin which is honestly not much better on the play style. It still very limited on things to push. It just has more OGCD that I can us. At this point I am feeling Classic Wow might be getting a sub from me. As FF14 has pretty much ruined tanking.

[ArianeEwah]

Aside from TBN, I feel like GNB is what HW DRK used to be, or what DRK should have been in SB/ShB.

Strong single target Dot (man, do I miss Scourge and its animation - good old 'look mom, I can Fell Cleave, too!'), fast paced and busy gameplay during bursts (Continuation plays basically like old Dark Arts, but used after a skill instead), and Camouflage feels like Dark Dance, but stronger and more useful - if we ignore the DA evasion effect that is.
I could've simply accepted DRK being a completely new/revised job now - tho very similar to WAR... (too much for my taste...) but there are also some things that I think GNB doesn't deserve when compared to DRK.

1st the charge (Rough Divide/Plunge): DRK was the first and only tank during HW that had a charge, which made it unique. It gained signiture and identity through it. Truth be told, it was clunky... it had a long animation lock, but for the overall kit of HW DRK it was fine. With SB WAR got Onslaught, with a 5 yalm higher charge range and shorter animation lock. WAR charge became superior to Plunge. At least SE did shorten the animation lock on Plunge later during SB.
Now in ShB all tanks have a charge, 3 of them actually the (almost) very same charge - PLD-Intervene, GNB-Rough Divide, DRK-Plunge. On lvl 80 they are essentially even... BUT it's a complete different story pre-80. Like I mentioned before DRK charge used to be unique - superior! What makes me sad is that right now it is neither unique nor superior. PLD get their charge at 74, that's fine. GNB get theirs on 56 - while DRK get Plunge on 54 - that is... fair enough. But it's totally unfair that the 'new guy' - GNB - instantly gets 2 stacks of their charge while DRK - the tank that used to be superior because it was the only tank with a charge - still has 1 stack up until 78! Imo it ruined the leveling exp on DRK, and I feel DRK lost their identity once again - first to Onslaught, now to Rough Divide.

2nd mitigation pre-70 - TBN/HoS, Dark Mind/Camouflage, Heart of Light/Dark Missionary: With HoL being accessible pre-70, DRK remains as the single one and only tank without any AoE (magic) mitigation til 76. HW DRK was the parry-magic/anti-magic tank because it could mitigate magic with Dark Mind, made constant use of mana, and had parry-based proc-mechanics and mitigation. With Dark Dance/Anticipation gone it doesn't have any good fluff mitigation pre-70 either, as Dark Mind remains magic only. Camouflage/HoS, Thrill of Battle/Raw Intuition and Sheltron all mitigate at least a bit of both damage types. This just adds in destroying DRK identity it used to have. DRK doesn't parry anymore and their magic mitigation is not as strong anymore because the other tanks' mitigation tools all soften magic attacks, too. Something is definitly missing and once again it ruins the leveling experience, or even 70 content - e.g. old savage fights or Ultimates.

3rd no additional combo (finisher): PLD and WAR both still have 1 additional combo finisher, heck, GNB even got a whole additional combo. But DRK remains on its standard 1-2-3! And it's boring to the bone. HW DRK had depth in their combos: Delirium combo had higher potency when you skipped DA or had no mana for it (and applied INT down as a 'bonus'), DA Souleater was saved for burst windows or when you would overcap on mana otherwise. In SB they removed it for whatever reason, and dumbed its rotation down. DRK used to be a tank you needed to think steps ahead in your rotation to play optimal. A dull 1-2-3 combo without any variation is the worst for the tank that used to be an advanced job for experienced player or those who sought a challange. No other melee job in this game has only 1 combo!

DA during HW was fine - and fun. I still don't get the dev team's decision that Syphon Strike used DA, too. That's actually what ruined 'DA'. DA was not bad, but it got applied to skill that it shouldn't have to. They saw it was bad on Dark Mind, so they changed it base value - and they did the same with Dark Passanger! Make it bad with 4.0 - then FINALLY listen to the community and change it back or made it better.
I also think that Bow Shock is better than Salted Earth - I hate ground-targeting abilities like these... and it's also pretty weak, it almost feels useless (300 potency on 90s CD is kinda lame).

Tbh I don't like the new DRK. I like the way it plays because I also like to play WAR. But I hate its design, its new identity - because it plays like WAR... with a few more oGCDs. I also miss its old playstyle... but I guess that's why I enjoy GNB...

I think if DRK had recieved a design change as big as the one MCH had, it could have been a way more unique and more enjoyable job.

[ArashiStormbreaker]

New in the game, Tank always in almost every MMO I played. I choosed to be a Dark Knight for the theme and off course because Cecil was one of my Fav character on FF Games

As tank I feel the DRK need or more outside of the GDC Skill or another different single target combo to be less... 1,2,3 .

Also I feel like it's almost imposible to get all the Agro if there ir another tank who isn't a DRK, only if I use the taunt I can get the aggro but only when use it and losing it really fast. when the other is a Gunsbreaker it's like. well, now I'm another dps ... without the dmg numbers part.

a to me with a small tuning could make it more fun to play, a lot more!. SE, use your data, and the feedback please!

[DRKoftheAzure]

I'm probably the only one who was getting physically sick from playing Dark Knight, like even practicing on a striking dummy with Dark knight was making me physically sick. Doesn't help the fact that Dark Knight feels slow as hell and not fun to play in general, which was probably making feel even more physically sick. I did use the "leave a suggestion" function in the in-game support desk to let them know about but I'm not holding my breathe on them addressing the issue...

[jetfire117]

I'm probably the only one who was getting physically sick from playing Dark Knight, like even practicing on a striking dummy with Dark knight was making me physically sick. Doesn't help the fact that Dark Knight feels slow as hell and not fun to play in general, which was probably making feel even more physically sick. I did use the "leave a suggestion" function in the in-game support desk to let them know about but I'm not holding my breathe on them addressing the issue...

Yea I felt that way playing it in stormblood, they never got back to me though. Plus they never responded to me about replacing my broken dark arts key. Hope they respond to you though!