Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[ReiMakoto]

DRK main since HW, and raided with it all through SB.

The thing thats absolutely killing new DRK for me is the mana regen/costs. after burning through mana at the 1 min mark its literally just soul eater with occasional blood spiller until manas back. Not to mention the fact the new Delrium feels like ass, I'd be fully on board with making delrium act like whms thin air, with no mana cost on abilities for 10 seconds.

[Alaray]

Things I don't like about New DRK as someone who raids on the job:

- The Blackest Night sucks to use. No, the EoS is not free, it's the exact same cost and you lose 500 potency if the shield doesn't break (and it won't always break, especially in a clutch situation to try and save someone from a raid-wide, the raid-wide isn't likely to break the shield -- it's still smart use in a tight spot, but you're being punished for using it like that).

The mitigation from it is fine, but the option to potentially go damage neutral, or lose potency (say you TBN a tb 20s before a Trick window, you just lost an EoS under trick) makes the ability feel punishing and not rewarding, compared to Heart of Stone, Intervention, or even Nascent Flash.

- I don't mind the MP regeneration. It felt slow at first, but the playstyle is closer to amassing resources for high expenditure under raid buff windows, vs. spamming Dark Arts. It's slower gameplay, but I don't really mind it too much, but I wouldn't complain if MP regen was a *little* better outside of BW.

- Living Dead is a blackhole for resources and I feel as if I'm punishing my party every time I push that button. A bene gone that could've been used elsewhere. Excog, ED, ED, etc... all dumped into it not because I need that much health to survive incoming damage, but because my own immunity will kill me instead.

I find myself trying not to press this ability in raid environments and just super cding things instead, or making the other tank in Titania blow their CD's to share with me so healers don't need to blow all their resources into it (especially if there's no WHM present).

And I, as the tank, can't do anything with my kit to make the healer's lives easier with this ability. I don't have a 1200 potency cure for myself to help. Just some sad soul eaters and maybe abyssal drain if it happens to line up.

- Dark Mind is only magic mitigation. It's a magic rampart. It's worse than rampart because it's completely useless against physical damage. And it got nerfed in the expansion leading up. It's a CD slot every tank has, but every tank that doesn't have one pigeonholed as "Physical damage only" or "Magical damage only" wins out since their CD will always be there and useful, while Dark Mind will not be. It's either 20% mitigation from a buster, or from auto attacks, or it's 0%.

[Inuk9]

Things I don't like about New DRK as someone who raids on the job:

- The Blackest Night sucks to use. No, the EoS is not free, it's the exact same cost and you lose 500 potency if the shield doesn't break (and it won't always break, especially in a clutch situation to try and save someone from a raid-wide, the raid-wide isn't likely to break the shield -- it's still smart use in a tight spot, but you're being punished for using it like that).

The mitigation from it is fine, but the option to potentially go damage neutral, or lose potency (say you TBN a tb 20s before a Trick window, you just lost an EoS under trick) makes the ability feel punishing and not rewarding, compared to Heart of Stone, Intervention, or even Nascent Flash.

- I don't mind the MP regeneration. It felt slow at first, but the playstyle is closer to amassing resources for high expenditure under raid buff windows, vs. spamming Dark Arts. It's slower gameplay, but I don't really mind it too much, but I wouldn't complain if MP regen was a *little* better outside of BW.

- Living Dead is a blackhole for resources and I feel as if I'm punishing my party every time I push that button. A bene gone that could've been used elsewhere. Excog, ED, ED, etc... all dumped into it not because I need that much health to survive incoming damage, but because my own immunity will kill me instead.

I find myself trying not to press this ability in raid environments and just super cding things instead, or making the other tank in Titania blow their CD's to share with me so healers don't need to blow all their resources into it (especially if there's no WHM present).

And I, as the tank, can't do anything with my kit to make the healer's lives easier with this ability. I don't have a 1200 potency cure for myself to help. Just some sad soul eaters and maybe abyssal drain if it happens to line up.

- Dark Mind is only magic mitigation. It's a magic rampart. It's worse than rampart because it's completely useless against physical damage. And it got nerfed in the expansion leading up. It's a CD slot every tank has, but every tank that doesn't have one pigeonholed as "Physical damage only" or "Magical damage only" wins out since their CD will always be there and useful, while Dark Mind will not be. It's either 20% mitigation from a buster, or from auto attacks, or it's 0%.

Finally someone with actual issues for the job. If they fix that, DRK should be ok.

[Awful]

Things I don't like about New DRK as someone who raids on the job:

- The Blackest Night sucks to use. No, the EoS is not free, it's the exact same cost and you lose 500 potency if the shield doesn't break (and it won't always break, especially in a clutch situation to try and save someone from a raid-wide, the raid-wide isn't likely to break the shield -- it's still smart use in a tight spot, but you're being punished for using it like that).

The mitigation from it is fine, but the option to potentially go damage neutral, or lose potency (say you TBN a tb 20s before a Trick window, you just lost an EoS under trick) makes the ability feel punishing and not rewarding, compared to Heart of Stone, Intervention, or even Nascent Flash.

- I don't mind the MP regeneration. It felt slow at first, but the playstyle is closer to amassing resources for high expenditure under raid buff windows, vs. spamming Dark Arts. It's slower gameplay, but I don't really mind it too much, but I wouldn't complain if MP regen was a *little* better outside of BW.

- Living Dead is a blackhole for resources and I feel as if I'm punishing my party every time I push that button. A bene gone that could've been used elsewhere. Excog, ED, ED, etc... all dumped into it not because I need that much health to survive incoming damage, but because my own immunity will kill me instead.

I find myself trying not to press this ability in raid environments and just super cding things instead, or making the other tank in Titania blow their CD's to share with me so healers don't need to blow all their resources into it (especially if there's no WHM present).

And I, as the tank, can't do anything with my kit to make the healer's lives easier with this ability. I don't have a 1200 potency cure for myself to help. Just some sad soul eaters and maybe abyssal drain if it happens to line up.

- Dark Mind is only magic mitigation. It's a magic rampart. It's worse than rampart because it's completely useless against physical damage. And it got nerfed in the expansion leading up. It's a CD slot every tank has, but every tank that doesn't have one pigeonholed as "Physical damage only" or "Magical damage only" wins out since their CD will always be there and useful, while Dark Mind will not be. It's either 20% mitigation from a buster, or from auto attacks, or it's 0%.

Couldn't agree more if those issues were fixed DRK would be where it needs to be compared to the other tanks it sucks that DM is just so situational, TBN isn't "free" it's high-cost-low-reward, and LD is just a void of healing and CDs, what you posted are the only issues with DRK other than that it's great. I've been posting the same thing in the forums as you've been stating they're my only gripes.

[Chrono_Rising]

Snip

The only thing I think that should realistically be added to the list is the issue around 10 second blood weapon. Right now being able to hit your 5th GCD in blood weapon is dependent on skill speed. While this seems to be fine on a dummy, in practice I see a number of people who aren't hitting the 5th GCD in blood weapon missing out on resources.

I did this myself: On a striking dummy I seem to be able to hit it. In raid I do not even though I'm hitting it in the same place in my GCD. Don't believe me? Check yourself, I did, I'm not the only person who seems to have the skill wearing off early. I'm fairly certain if you look back at your raid experience you'll see something similar to what I'm seeing.

I personally was seeing between .05 and .01 seconds early, but on further inspection someone's is wearing off .1 seconds early. Other 10 seconds skills last up to an extra second after they "end" to accomodate the last GCD. Why isn't blood weapon?

While it doesn't "seem" like a huge issue missing this 5th GCD each window is equivalent to throwing out both 1 Edge of Shadow and 1 bloodspiller, approximately 735 potency.

[Alaray]

That’s a fair complaint, too. I just hadn’t run into the issue do I didn’t think about it. But I know a lot of people mentioned it, and it’d make sense to share the timer with delirium at least, with regards to duration.

[Chrono_Rising]

That’s a fair complaint, too. I just hadn’t run into the issue do I didn’t think about it. But I know a lot of people mentioned it, and it’d make sense to share the timer with delirium at least, with regards to duration.

So I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say on the forums about this. But I'll speak from personal experience. I wasn't aware I was missing it either, on a dummy I hit 5 GCDs in blood weapon; but not in the instance it isn't in every instance or blood weapon window either. In fact I would say many may not be aware of it as it even happens in best runs. I would advise everyone who plays dark knight should actually check this. I know to fix the problem on my current build I would need to back out many of my melds to meld about 9 or so Quick arm 8's just to hit the required GCD.

Just trying to help out.

[Kreyd]

-give Blood Weapon the 10% haste effect back, change it's duration to 15 seconds.
-change Blood Weapon and Delirium to "The next 5 weaponskills..." instead of 10 seconds.


The skills that bug me the most are Dark Mind and Abyssal Drain.

DM is great for raids, since there is always some magical stuff around and most tankbusters will probably be magical again. But it's worthless in dungeon trash pulls, and therefore Darkknight needs to totally rely on TBN.

AD is the exact opposite. It's among the strongest skills in trash pulls, while beeing weak on single target. AD is the definition of unbalancable. It is supposed to be our selfhealing tool, comparable with Equilibrium, Clemency and Aurora, but it's also part of the dmg kit and it's effectness relies on the number of enemies.

-turn DM into a 1200 potency hp shield
-make AD restore MP instead of HP
-give us Dark Dance back


If DRK falls behind in terms of dps, I would suggest potency buffs to AD and C&S

[Lyth]

DRK does need a slight dps boost. Instead of potency increases, though, I think that the best place to do it would be to add a small amount of baseline MP to Bloodspiller/Quietus, and have Delirium boost that MP generation. Just enough to generate 2-3 more Edge/Floods per minute.

Living Dead needs to be adjusted. We need UI elements to show how much required healing is needed at a bare minimum. If there's no change to how Living Dead functions, Holmgang needs to be on a longer recast. I don't care if that involves just swapping their recasts, or pushing Holm up to 6 minutes. It's not worth the trade-off. Alternatively, just rework the action. There are like 500 threads on this.

I wouldn't mind Dark Mind/Missionary if the devs designed fights like they previously did, where there was a mix of physical and magical damage going out. But if you're going to design a purely physical fight (including physical AoEs) for an end of tier fight, it just doesn't work. What's the advantage of Dark Missionary/Heart of Light over Divine Veil and Shake it Off? It's not like you get a recast advantage in a purely magic fight. But if the fight involves purely physical AoEs, then you're pretty much stuck. That's not a trade-off, it's a flat disadvantage.

Either DV/SiO need to be on a 120 second recast, or Dark Missionary/HoL need to work on physical damage. I don't mind Dark Mind so much because of the fact that TBN is so good, but the raidwide damage is going to be an issue.

[Kabooa]

DRK does need a slight dps boost. Instead of potency increases, though, I think that the best place to do it would be to add a small amount of baseline MP to Bloodspiller/Quietus, and have Delirium boost that MP generation. Just enough to generate 2-3 more Edge/Floods per minute.

Even assuming low ball non crits, 3 extra Edges a minute is around 30,000 damage, or 500 DPS. Wouldn't call 8% slight.