Lack of End Game Content

[Nixxe]

you have to evolve with the world.

10 hours is a quarter of a fulltime job. if 15 hours is still MEGA casual, that's a problem in definition. if someone told you they went to the gym 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, you wouldn't say they are a mega casual gymgoer.

i would say 15 hours is above the median for FFXIV subscribers.

Because that's substantially more time than the average person needs for an appropriate weekly workout routine. It's not really an apt comparison to a video game, which is purely for recreation. If someone told you they spent a few hours a night on any other hobby, you probably wouldn't bat an eye at it, though you might be envious of their free time.

[SendohJin]

Because that's substantially more time than the average person needs for an appropriate weekly workout routine. It's not really an apt comparison to a video game, which is purely for recreation. If someone told you they spent a few hours a night on any other hobby, you probably wouldn't bat an eye at it, though you might be envious of their free time.

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

[Nixxe]

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

"Mega casual" is maybe a bit much, but it's definitely a casual amount of time. MMORPGs are notorious for the amount of time players invest into them, and aren't readily comparable to most other pursuits. Consider that the MSQ added for Shadowbringers launch alone is basically an entire single-player RPG worth of content, and you have to get through that to do anything else, but a ton of people will have completed that in the first few days of the expansion. MMOs are generally made for and attract an all around more hardcore audience, who expect an appropriate amount of content to keep them satisfied. If you're one of those people who only plays a few hours a week, it's little wonder that you wouldn't understand the dilemma.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

"Mega casual" is maybe a bit much, but it's definitely a casual amount of time. MMORPGs are notorious for the amount of time players invest into them, and aren't readily comparable to most other pursuits. Consider that the MSQ added for Shadowbringers launch alone is basically an entire single-player RPG worth of content, and you have to get through that to do anything else, but a ton of people will have completed that in the first few days of the expansion. MMOs are generally made for and attract an all around more hardcore audience, who expect an appropriate amount of content to keep them satisfied. If you're one of those people who only plays a few hours a week, it's little wonder that you wouldn't understand the dilemma.

MMOs are also notorious for filling that endgame void with pointless junk. There are many MMOs- I'd actually say most- wherein they make a lot of content, that will take a lot of time to get through enough times to get the ultra rare BiS piece, or have 1% or lower drop rates on mounts that you can farm for once a week in raids that take hours to get through even when soloable. But it's not good content.

If you were to look at WoW's newest patch- if you want the BiS gear, you're looking at months of 40+ hour a week grinding to -maybe- have a few pieces of bis gear, with luck. But if you were to just do each piece of new content once- it'd take a day, maybe a few more if you consider repackaged WQs to be 'new content'.

While I don't think anyone would ever be against having more content- the problem is everyone has the fairly realistic realization that it would never work that way, and how it always works is we get less of something else in order to move resources into that other content.

I'd rather they focus on making a quality game with lots of casual content, as well as the savages/extremes, etc...- then to turn casual content into what every other mmo does, and throw grindable dailies at them where the sole reward is the reward, not the journey.

Frankly, if I didn't get a single piece of gear from doing the storyline in this game, I'd still be able to say I greatly enjoyed it- I'm not even thinking of rewards as I work through the story of this game. If WQs in WoW didn't have rewards, I wouldn't do a single one of them, ever.

I know it's not the typical mmo formula- but imo that's what makes FFXIV different and far more enjoyable. Now, if they feel they can keep up the quality, still make it enjoyable and also put in endless content for those that blow through the game and have thirty hours a week to play the game- great, all for it. Priorities though- I'd rather have well rounded, enjoyable content than a hyper focus on making good content solely for elite hardcores at the cost of quality for everyone else.

[Zabuza]

I'm baffled at some of the replies in here. I get the impression a lot of you just dislike raiders, full stop.

Reprimanding us for wanting more content for us to do, as if there is something wrong with that.

Even the existing raid, Eden, still has no voice acting and what's more, they pitted us against primals we fought 3, 4 times? I am supposed to be satisfied with that? Knowing that we'll likely have to face 4 other primals we've fought before, making hhalf of the entire 12 trial fights in Eden enemies I've fought before. Hurray? They also had no excuse to not include voice acting in at least parts of this raid. I've heard it in dungeons, and they certainly are not short on money at this point.

Basically what I'm hearing is 'be quiet raiders, be grateful that you get your 4 trial fights every 6 months, and if you get your 5th, consider yourself blessed.' You know how long those 4 fights last before you get fully geared? 2 months out of those 6 at best, unless you count Ultimate. And I raid with pugs! Imagine how it is for the top statics in this game!

Coil was somewhat of an actual raid, because it had an environment you walked through, trash to kill. Now you just get teleported right into the square arena. Circles and squares, nothing else. They could reimplement the actual raid feel, and have trash dropping crafting materials to make it worth it. I just wonder, does anyone want a challenge anymore in their game? Adventure? Or is this too much to ask? I have had to watch even the Savage Modes get easier, and people complaining that certain fights outside of Savage are too challenging. So where am I, and people like me, supposed to get our plethora of challenging content? Don't say WoW. I've played WoW in the past. I don't want to play WoW. Final Fantasy has always been the franchise I am passionate about. So me wanting at least one other form of challenging content besides the Savage/Ultimate trial fights is wrong?

I guess I'm somewhat jaded regarding this, since I remember always having an endgame activity to do in FFXI, always a challenge to be had. I realize that was due to the nature of horizontal progression, but I do feel Square Enix is making enough money to create something else to entertain raiders.

I don't ask for SE to keep glamour options limited even though I have no interest in it, so why do many people get hostile towards raiders for wanting something more?

[Forever_Learning]

I'm baffled at some of the replies in here. I get the impression a lot of you just dislike raiders, full stop.

Reprimanding us for wanting more content for us to do, as if there is something wrong with that.

Even the existing raid, Eden, still has no voice acting and what's more, they pitted us against primals we fought 3, 4 times? I am supposed to be satisfied with that? Knowing that we'll likely have to face 4 other primals we've fought before, making hhalf of the entire 12 trial fights in Eden enemies I've fought before. Hurray? They also had no excuse to not include voice acting in at least parts of this raid. I've heard it in dungeons, and they certainly are not short on money at this point.

Basically what I'm hearing is 'be quiet raiders, be grateful that you get your 4 trial fights every 6 months, and if you get your 5th, consider yourself blessed.' You know how long those 4 fights last before you get fully geared? 2 months out of those 6 at best, unless you count Ultimate. And I raid with pugs! Imagine how it is for the top statics in this game!

Coil was somewhat of an actual raid, because it had an environment you walked through, trash to kill. Now you just get teleported right into the square arena. Circles and squares, nothing else. They could reimplement the actual raid feel, and have trash dropping crafting materials to make it worth it. I just wonder, does anyone want a challenge anymore in their game? Adventure? Or is this too much to ask? I have had to watch even the Savage Modes get easier, and people complaining that certain fights outside of Savage are too challenging. So where am I, and people like me, supposed to get our plethora of challenging content? Don't say WoW. I've played WoW in the past. I don't want to play WoW. Final Fantasy has always been the franchise I am passionate about. So me wanting at least one other form of challenging content besides the Savage/Ultimate trial fights is wrong?

I guess I'm somewhat jaded regarding this, since I remember always having an endgame activity to do in FFXI, always a challenge to be had. I realize that was due to the nature of horizontal progression, but I do feel Square Enix is making enough money to create something else to entertain raiders.

I don't ask for SE to keep glamour options limited even though I have no interest in it, so why do many people get hostile towards raiders for wanting something more?

No, I think you misunderstand.

The title of the thread is 'Lack of End Game Content', but the rationale was based only on the size of the raid. Furthermore, there was the argument that only raids count as end game. I think if the thread was 'Eden could have used more bosses', the reaction would have been quite different.

[Losara]

Coil was somewhat of an actual raid, because it had an environment you walked through, trash to kill. Now you just get teleported right into the square arena. Circles and squares, nothing else. They could re-implement the actual raid feel, and have trash dropping crafting materials to make it worth it.

This is something I have wondered about for a bit. Is it actually a raid if you are just teleported straight to the final boss?

I think it would be a trial instead since there is only the boss to fight and no actual dungeon to explore and trash mobs to defeat and collect loot from.

Think most of us don't have anything against raiders, though compared to casuals, raiders have more content to do than casual players simply because they participate in the content whereas casuals do not for various reasons.

SE doesn't want to introduce a grind fest this early in the expansion, we'll likely get more things to keep people busy in later patches so enjoy the quiet while it lasts is what I reckon.

[Arthrun]

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

I too wouldn't call it mega casual. Goodness, if I knew someone who spent more than 15 hours a week I would respond with 2 things. "are they a kid with a lot of free time?" "Does that person not have any outside responsibilities? like work, family, chores, or other responsible adult things?"

Maybe as I am entering my itching closer to my 40's that I have far more appreciation to take a break from something. As for the sub, I often forget its even there until I get notified because I am a place where I feel financially healthy. But that does come with the fact that I typically get an additional 10-15 hours a week in over time at my job. Because of that even when I took a break I liked the Idea to be able to return when ever I am able to have time even if that means dropping only 6 hours this particular week.

Being Old School hardcore back in college I see the issue. But FFXIV from the stand point I am seeing was not made for players to sink 30+hours a week into it. It is just simply not designed that way. FFXI was.... oh good god it was. Classic WoW was.... ...who remembers 8 hour AQ 40 raids.

[Nixxe]

I too wouldn't call it mega casual. Goodness, if I knew someone who spent more than 15 hours a week I would respond with 2 things. "are they a kid with a lot of free time?" "Does that person not have any outside responsibilities? like work, family, chores, or other responsible adult things?"

Gonna need you to get over yourself. There are 168 hours in a week. If you can't find 15 to spend on recreation, you've probably made some poor decisions.

[Arthrun]

Gonna need you to get over yourself. There are 168 hours in a week. If you can't find 15 to spend on recreation, you've probably made some poor decisions.

My apologies, didn't mean to come off as self righteous. To me it just is very surprising because I have so many other things that I need/want to do. I clearly stated More than 15 hours Some weeks when I have more than 20 hours a week clocked. But majority of the time I have many other recreational or things I want to do with my family or other things I want to accomplish. So for you to assume that gaming is a persons only recreational time needs to take a step back from this discussion.

But for fun lets just break down what many would asume is an average adult life.

40-50 hours a week for work. 1 hour drive time to and from 5 days a week. = 45=55 hours
Additional 6-8 hours of sleep a night = 42 - 56 hours

87-112 hours used so far.

We all have different eating habits but for funsies lets just say 15 -45 mins per meal not including snacks possibly 3 rimes a day = 45m - 2.25 hours roughly. 5.25 - 15.75 hours

And for the sake of argument lets assume we all bathe 30 mins a day.

So we are what? 96-130 hours.

You have 38-72 hours in your week to do whatever one wants. I find I like spending time with my wife watching what ever show she seems to enjoy at the moment say 2 hours here and there. I get some solid exercise walking my dog at least an hour a day. I like to make sure my House is clean so I dedicate at least 2 or more hours to clean up on the weekend. perhaps some friends wants to hang out a bit that can easily last up to 4 hours. Some times things like grocery shopping and getting "errands" done can take 3 hours in your week. I also have been getting into Light novels lately so there is about 3 hours per book there.

Maybe its just a me things but I find Not neglecting your family during your recreational time is apart of your adult responsibilities. And good grief can your family eat up whatever free time you have, but I wouldn't give it up for the world. So yes it is a struggle for me to comprehend that there are those out there that can sink as much time into the game as they would a full time job.