Lack of End Game Content

[aeoncs]

sounds like soundproof plan to fuck up the raiding scene

Ok, humour me. In which way would that "fuck up the raiding scene"?

Maybe because talking of lacking of high-level-skill-savage content for a game that is tailored to casual gaming by design, is quite silly.

Savage content is here to let the ones who wants challenge something to do, but they are not the main target population of the game as a whole. I think this is pretty obvious but maybe someone still don't realize.

The hardcore crowd isn't the main target population of any MMORPG and that's besides the point. They specifically designed Ultimate for those players and made Savage slightly more tame to make it more accessible.
So they are clearly still thinking of new ways to please players craving more varied & challenging endgame content; which is something Yoshi has repeatedly made clear.

Also, good on you for actually proving Selova's point - the passive-aggressive responses of some of the "casual crowd" are frankly quite ludicrous.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Ok, humour me. In which way would that "fuck up the raiding scene"?





The hardcore crowd isn't the main target population of any MMORPG and that's besides the point. They specifically designed Ultimate for those players and made Savage slightly more tame to make it more accessible.
So they are clearly still thinking of new ways to please players craving more varied & challenging endgame content; which is something Yoshi has repeatedly made clear.

Also, good on you for actually proving Selova's point - the passive-aggressive responses of some of the "casual crowd" are frankly quite ludicrous.

So why respond in a passive-aggressive way yourself? If you have an issue with how people you disagree with talk, why do the same yourself? And why pretend it's a 'casual crowd' ludicrous thing, raiders do it too.

I mean, the thread is full of hardcores acting like 15-20 hours a week is 'ultra casual', like if you haven't gotten through the MSQ yet there's something wrong with you. 2+ hours a day on a hobby, if you consider most people have about 6 hours of recreation time a day, tops, is quite hardcore, and would be considered so for almost any other hobby.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that players that play about 15 hours a week, and aren't maximizing their time by skipping most of the content- are going to have content to do well after those that play 40+. Even if they were to make 200 hours of casual content per patch, and 200 hours of hardcore raid content- it'd still take most of the patch for casuals to get through it, while hardcores would be bored in a month... except they'd be putting a massive amount of time into developing content for 10% or less of the playerbase.

Now, nobody likes being told they're going to get less content, I sympathize with that- but it's pretty tiring to continually have all the non-raid content be treated as if it doesn't matter by the elite few, so of course when raiders do that, as they are in this thread, it'll get pushback from those who are annoyed at being treated like they're lesser for not being elite. It does matter, it is endgame, and frankly this game has a pre-end-game that matters, unlike every other MMO where the pre-endgame is purely a barrier, and not intended to be enjoyable, and with no effort put into it.

[Xatsh]

The people complaining about lack of endgame usually refer it to progression based endgame, or things that progress your character in a meaningful way.

IN that sense this game has always been one of the mmos with the Least amount of content.

Mounts, Glamour, Minions, PvP, Housing are all aspects of the game yes, but they have literally nothing to do with endgame progression. And do not build your character at all. It is the same thing as achievements they are there but pointless in the end besides busy work and vanity items.

Crafting while great in how it works here has no impact on endgame outside Food and Meds, due to the economy being 100% geared towards ppl leveling and not endgame. Most the money you make crafting gear comes from selling to other crafters, after a few months of each expansion. Leveling all your jobs is a valid argument to make, but you can only really gear 2 archetypes at once due to the lockouts. Example if you gear healers and tanks, all dps (Range/Magic/Melee) will be forced to be a lower gearscore.

FFXIV does really good at the leveling and low to mid-low core endgame aspects, but they 100% lack in the upper endgame aspect. This is one of the biggest issues FFXIV has. My guild since ARR has lost over 70 members who quit due to excessive boredom, many of them still play 25-30+hrs a week on other games now. Alot of people do not take breaks and come back... they quit and go elsewhere permanently.

All in all the game needs more upper tier endgame then a 4 raid boss fight every 6 months. That simple. Eureka for example would of been better if it released along side the current tier endgame instead of rewarding you with crap weaker then you were getting already. Just need more stuff at once, multiple avenues of progression.

In the end if you are a hardcore player YOU WILL run out of meaningful content after you learn savage within the first 10hrs of every week (about 2 days). Game has about 25% of the needed content at upper endgame at any 1 time, always been the case with ffxiv.

Add for those saying it is a player problem. If players run out of content it is a game problem not a player problem. 10-15 hrs a week is mega casual for a mmo, that should never be used as a benchmark on how to make a mmo.

[SendohJin]

10-15 hrs a week is mega casual for a mmo, that should never be used as a benchmark on how to make a mmo.

you have to evolve with the world.

10 hours is a quarter of a fulltime job. if 15 hours is still MEGA casual, that's a problem in definition. if someone told you they went to the gym 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, you wouldn't say they are a mega casual gymgoer.

i would say 15 hours is above the median for FFXIV subscribers.

[Nixxe]

you have to evolve with the world.

10 hours is a quarter of a fulltime job. if 15 hours is still MEGA casual, that's a problem in definition. if someone told you they went to the gym 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, you wouldn't say they are a mega casual gymgoer.

i would say 15 hours is above the median for FFXIV subscribers.

Because that's substantially more time than the average person needs for an appropriate weekly workout routine. It's not really an apt comparison to a video game, which is purely for recreation. If someone told you they spent a few hours a night on any other hobby, you probably wouldn't bat an eye at it, though you might be envious of their free time.

[SendohJin]

Because that's substantially more time than the average person needs for an appropriate weekly workout routine. It's not really an apt comparison to a video game, which is purely for recreation. If someone told you they spent a few hours a night on any other hobby, you probably wouldn't bat an eye at it, though you might be envious of their free time.

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

[Nixxe]

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

"Mega casual" is maybe a bit much, but it's definitely a casual amount of time. MMORPGs are notorious for the amount of time players invest into them, and aren't readily comparable to most other pursuits. Consider that the MSQ added for Shadowbringers launch alone is basically an entire single-player RPG worth of content, and you have to get through that to do anything else, but a ton of people will have completed that in the first few days of the expansion. MMOs are generally made for and attract an all around more hardcore audience, who expect an appropriate amount of content to keep them satisfied. If you're one of those people who only plays a few hours a week, it's little wonder that you wouldn't understand the dilemma.

[Arthrun]

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

I too wouldn't call it mega casual. Goodness, if I knew someone who spent more than 15 hours a week I would respond with 2 things. "are they a kid with a lot of free time?" "Does that person not have any outside responsibilities? like work, family, chores, or other responsible adult things?"

Maybe as I am entering my itching closer to my 40's that I have far more appreciation to take a break from something. As for the sub, I often forget its even there until I get notified because I am a place where I feel financially healthy. But that does come with the fact that I typically get an additional 10-15 hours a week in over time at my job. Because of that even when I took a break I liked the Idea to be able to return when ever I am able to have time even if that means dropping only 6 hours this particular week.

Being Old School hardcore back in college I see the issue. But FFXIV from the stand point I am seeing was not made for players to sink 30+hours a week into it. It is just simply not designed that way. FFXI was.... oh good god it was. Classic WoW was.... ...who remembers 8 hour AQ 40 raids.

[Forever_Learning]

Mounts, Glamour, Minions, PvP, Housing are all aspects of the game yes, but they have literally nothing to do with endgame progression. And do not build your character at all. It is the same thing as achievements they are there but pointless in the end besides busy work and vanity items.

Um, most people in WoW DONT RAID. It's been estimated that roughly 10-20% of the playerbase are doing raids.

What are the rest doing? They do mount runs, they level alts, they go after achievements (for more mounts), various quests (for more mounts), and other activities that largely revolve around collecting. Many people involved in pet collecting or battling (minions) as well as PVP.

When people in WoW who don't raid, or don't want to raid, ask what there is to do, they get the same answer here: mounts, collecting transmog (glam), levelling alts.

For some reason, that has always been considered part of end-game in WoW, especially for people who don't raid, yet for some reason people here want to argue that it doesn't count?

Do you know what is requested CONSTANTLY by WoW players? Housing! They want the housing system that exists in FF and would like to spend their end-game time focused on that. Yet again, some people here want to say it doesn't count as end-game, even though WoW players feel it should be added as a major part of end-game? Why don't you go to the WoW forums and tell them how mount and pet collecting isn't part of end-game, and that housing is a waist of time

Please do, cause I know the reception you'll get.

Collecting is now a major part of the end-game in WoW, some would say it's the only part of end-game that matters because gear doesn't last.

So when people in this game tell you collecting is part of end-game, they are speaking exactly like WoW players, who actually agree with them!

You know, those people in WoW we call the filthy casuals. You know - the majority of the players?

[Adventica6]

FFXIV doesn't have an end-game, that's the whole point, it's a theme park. I think you are on the wrong game, the dead horse known as wow is --> over there.

Some people consider fishing their personal end-game, other may enjoy farming mounts, you set your own goals, you don't need a babysitter to tell you what your end-game should be.