Duty Finder Roulette Etiquette

[Intellion]

The only "rule" for want of a better term I find silly is the whole "you spank it, you tank it" mentality. If you asked someone not to pull ahead of you and they continuously do, have at it then. You've at least tried to work with them. However, just outright refusing to pick up mobs because they aggro'd more isn't accomplishing anything. All you have done is given the healer more work. And no, you aren't "teaching them a lesson." Odds are if they're willing to pull for you, they couldn't care less.

It's kind of the same philosophy as purposefully standing in AoEs because the healer isn't DPSing.

No. "You spank it, you tank it" has always been MMORPG etiquette 101 for ages now.
DPS who act like they can tank better than the tank are bad DPS, since not only are they not playing their class correctly, but they're also not properly contributing to the team.


The community needs to stop babying the DPS classes. If tanks and healers don't play properly, they are properly reprimanded by the rest of their team.
DPS need to be treated the same as well. You tank it? You spank it. Your job is to burn down enemies and do mechanics, not to rush ahead of the group. No ifs, no buts.
End of discussion.



Got a problem with that? Feel free to leave or vote kick the tank/healer. Either way, tanks and healers have insta-queues, DPS do not.

So in the end, the tanks and healers will always win.

[Laphael]

No. "You spank it, you tank it" has always been MMORPG etiquette 101 for ages now.

Ppl knew for centuries that the earth is flat...

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.
Also, if someone else is able to pull more/faster, you basically pulled not enough/to slow.
Exceptions are: New player/some special pulls/communication before pull.

[Hash_Browns]

Ppl knew for centuries that the earth is flat...

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.
Also, if someone else is able to pull more/faster, you basically pulled not enough/to slow.
Exceptions are: New player/some special pulls/communication before pull.

A cocky DPS pulling a boss because I'm waiting for people to still get into the arena to start will only serve to them losing the buff when they die. I don't generally agree with the rule "you pull it, you tank it" - but DPS have been getting way more annoying as of late, especially during things such as Alliance Raids where it's now not uncommon to see DPS bolt ahead of tanks and pulling the bosses/enemies only to cause a wipe ,or cripple the run.

[Laphael]

A cocky DPS pulling a boss because I'm waiting for people to still get into the arena to start will only serve to them losing the buff when they die. I don't generally agree with the rule "you pull it, you tank it" - but DPS have been getting way more annoying as of late, especially during things such as Alliance Raids where it's now not uncommon to see DPS bolt ahead of tanks and pulling the bosses/enemies only to cause a wipe ,or cripple the run.

You made an example where it is not ok to pull, obviously.

Also the reason it got worse is probably, like i said, getting enmity back is really easy for the tank now and tanks are not as much in need as before.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

[MomomiMomi]

You made an example where it is not ok to pull, obviously.

Also the reason it got worse is probably, like i said, getting enmity back is really easy for the tank now and tanks are not as much in need as before.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

It's not just tanks, though. As a healer, I do not approve of pulling unless if you are the tank. I don't care if the tank and I can handle it or not; it's disrespectful.

You want faster/larger pulls? You ask for it, and hope we agree to it. Otherwise, queue as tank yourself.

[Hash_Browns]

You made an example where it is not ok to pull, obviously.

Also the reason it got worse is probably, like i said, getting enmity back is really easy for the tank now and tanks are not as much in need as before.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

The problem is that it's now not uncommon to see these things. This even happens when it's clear the healer I'm with can't deal with me pulling wall-to-wall, or the DPS are burning enemies fast enough for whatever reason.

A lot of people who I have had to deal with doing this as of late are the type that don't care what is happening in the dungeon at all. They pull because they can. I tend to stick to big pulls, but if my healer is here in the dungeon for the first time, wearing iLvl 400 gear and is generally illequipped - a DPS pulling tons of crap isn't going to get far.

It's not about how easy it is to take enmity back, it's about being the one in the group that chooses what gets done. DPS, Tank, healer - your role doesn't matter. If 3 of 4 people don't want to do large pulls, and are sick of you pulling more mobs - guess who gets shown the door? Group decides.

Also any time I have to deal with this situation its someone who thinks they are above everyone else. Another good example is me explaining Titan EX to a PUG, and having having a BLM just go "Stop wasting everyones time" before pulling him themselves. Luckily everyone was on board with just letting the BLM die, and then restarting.

The bottom line is that this isn't a DPS thing, it isn't a tank thing, and it isn't a healer thing - It's a group thing.

[Laphael]

The problem is that it's now not uncommon to see these things. This even happens when it's clear the healer I'm with can't deal with me pulling wall-to-wall, or the DPS are burning enemies fast enough for whatever reason.

A lot of people who I have had to deal with doing this as of late are the type that don't care what is happening in the dungeon at all. They pull because they can. I tend to stick to big pulls, but if my healer is here in the dungeon for the first time, wearing iLvl 400 gear and is generally illequipped - a DPS pulling tons of crap isn't going to get far.[/B]

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.
Also, if someone else is able to pull more/faster, you basically pulled not enough/to slow.
Exceptions are: New player/some special pulls/communication before pull.

It's not about how easy it is to take enmity back, it's about being the one in the group that chooses what gets done. DPS, Tank, healer - your role doesn't matter. If 3 of 4 people don't want to do large pulls, and are sick of you pulling more mobs - guess who gets shown the door? Group decides.

Also any time I have to deal with this situation its someone who thinks they are above everyone else. Another good example is me explaining Titan EX to a PUG, and having having a BLM just go "Stop wasting everyones time" before pulling him themselves. Luckily everyone was on board with just letting the BLM die, and then restarting.

The bottom line is that this isn't a DPS thing, it isn't a tank thing, and it isn't a healer thing - It's a group thing.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

I never intended to say, that dps should pull all the time.

[Hash_Browns]

I never intended to say, that dps should pull all the time.

What exactly are you advocating for then?

Honestly, if a tank isn't willing to pull more, kick 'em. If the group wants more - but the tank doesn't. F 'em, bye bye, here's the door. (Obviously, this method shouldn't be a thing for new tanks in earlier dungeons)

I have never dealt with a tank throwing a tantrum when asked to pull more. I've only ever really been on the other end. DPS pulling more, pulling bosses before people get into the room, not rolling on loot so they can't be kicked, mocking people, etc. That's where my experience comes from. I generally pull wall-to-wall, and a DPS shouldn't exactly pull more considering I play with a healer I know, and I know when to stop gathering more enemies.

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.

This is the line I got hooked on that made me think you were advocating DPS pulling. Your buff really means nothing if I see my healer burning through resources without time to catch up. That's the issue I have with what I've experienced.