Duty Finder Roulette Etiquette

[Hash_Browns]

Ppl knew for centuries that the earth is flat...

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.
Also, if someone else is able to pull more/faster, you basically pulled not enough/to slow.
Exceptions are: New player/some special pulls/communication before pull.

A cocky DPS pulling a boss because I'm waiting for people to still get into the arena to start will only serve to them losing the buff when they die. I don't generally agree with the rule "you pull it, you tank it" - but DPS have been getting way more annoying as of late, especially during things such as Alliance Raids where it's now not uncommon to see DPS bolt ahead of tanks and pulling the bosses/enemies only to cause a wipe ,or cripple the run.

[Laphael]

A cocky DPS pulling a boss because I'm waiting for people to still get into the arena to start will only serve to them losing the buff when they die. I don't generally agree with the rule "you pull it, you tank it" - but DPS have been getting way more annoying as of late, especially during things such as Alliance Raids where it's now not uncommon to see DPS bolt ahead of tanks and pulling the bosses/enemies only to cause a wipe ,or cripple the run.

You made an example where it is not ok to pull, obviously.

Also the reason it got worse is probably, like i said, getting enmity back is really easy for the tank now and tanks are not as much in need as before.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

[MomomiMomi]

You made an example where it is not ok to pull, obviously.

Also the reason it got worse is probably, like i said, getting enmity back is really easy for the tank now and tanks are not as much in need as before.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

It's not just tanks, though. As a healer, I do not approve of pulling unless if you are the tank. I don't care if the tank and I can handle it or not; it's disrespectful.

You want faster/larger pulls? You ask for it, and hope we agree to it. Otherwise, queue as tank yourself.

[Hash_Browns]

You made an example where it is not ok to pull, obviously.

Also the reason it got worse is probably, like i said, getting enmity back is really easy for the tank now and tanks are not as much in need as before.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

The problem is that it's now not uncommon to see these things. This even happens when it's clear the healer I'm with can't deal with me pulling wall-to-wall, or the DPS are burning enemies fast enough for whatever reason.

A lot of people who I have had to deal with doing this as of late are the type that don't care what is happening in the dungeon at all. They pull because they can. I tend to stick to big pulls, but if my healer is here in the dungeon for the first time, wearing iLvl 400 gear and is generally illequipped - a DPS pulling tons of crap isn't going to get far.

It's not about how easy it is to take enmity back, it's about being the one in the group that chooses what gets done. DPS, Tank, healer - your role doesn't matter. If 3 of 4 people don't want to do large pulls, and are sick of you pulling more mobs - guess who gets shown the door? Group decides.

Also any time I have to deal with this situation its someone who thinks they are above everyone else. Another good example is me explaining Titan EX to a PUG, and having having a BLM just go "Stop wasting everyones time" before pulling him themselves. Luckily everyone was on board with just letting the BLM die, and then restarting.

The bottom line is that this isn't a DPS thing, it isn't a tank thing, and it isn't a healer thing - It's a group thing.

[Laphael]

The problem is that it's now not uncommon to see these things. This even happens when it's clear the healer I'm with can't deal with me pulling wall-to-wall, or the DPS are burning enemies fast enough for whatever reason.

A lot of people who I have had to deal with doing this as of late are the type that don't care what is happening in the dungeon at all. They pull because they can. I tend to stick to big pulls, but if my healer is here in the dungeon for the first time, wearing iLvl 400 gear and is generally illequipped - a DPS pulling tons of crap isn't going to get far.[/B]

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.
Also, if someone else is able to pull more/faster, you basically pulled not enough/to slow.
Exceptions are: New player/some special pulls/communication before pull.

It's not about how easy it is to take enmity back, it's about being the one in the group that chooses what gets done. DPS, Tank, healer - your role doesn't matter. If 3 of 4 people don't want to do large pulls, and are sick of you pulling more mobs - guess who gets shown the door? Group decides.

Also any time I have to deal with this situation its someone who thinks they are above everyone else. Another good example is me explaining Titan EX to a PUG, and having having a BLM just go "Stop wasting everyones time" before pulling him themselves. Luckily everyone was on board with just letting the BLM die, and then restarting.

The bottom line is that this isn't a DPS thing, it isn't a tank thing, and it isn't a healer thing - It's a group thing.

Before Shb, you would usually let the tank have his way, because it was a bigger issue to replace him. So Tanks usually got what they wanted even if it was an annoyance for the whole grp.
Now with healers being more in demand those tanks get suddenly told, what to do different and that party wishes matter too; followed mostly by a tantrum at the infantile level. (aka putting tankstance out and letting everyone die)

I never intended to say, that dps should pull all the time.

[Hash_Browns]

I never intended to say, that dps should pull all the time.

What exactly are you advocating for then?

Honestly, if a tank isn't willing to pull more, kick 'em. If the group wants more - but the tank doesn't. F 'em, bye bye, here's the door. (Obviously, this method shouldn't be a thing for new tanks in earlier dungeons)

I have never dealt with a tank throwing a tantrum when asked to pull more. I've only ever really been on the other end. DPS pulling more, pulling bosses before people get into the room, not rolling on loot so they can't be kicked, mocking people, etc. That's where my experience comes from. I generally pull wall-to-wall, and a DPS shouldn't exactly pull more considering I play with a healer I know, and I know when to stop gathering more enemies.

With the new tank stances enmity management is super easy. A dps pulling to keep there buff (dancer dancing for example) is better for the run than letting the buffs run out.

This is the line I got hooked on that made me think you were advocating DPS pulling. Your buff really means nothing if I see my healer burning through resources without time to catch up. That's the issue I have with what I've experienced.

[Laphael]

What exactly are you advocating for then?

Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

[Hash_Browns]

Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

I can agree that "you spank it, you tank it" is bad - but I can't agree with pulling the boss as a DPS.

[Crushnight]

Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

no its not, it just is not the sole rule with pulls anymore.

I very much let a dps die in ravel, why? because i was out of cds to do a second big pull after the 1st (hlr had trouble) so while waiting for resources to come back i decided 1 small pull then pull the rest, a dps didn't like this pulled 2 sets of mobs i started single targeting told hlr to focus me if they go after them i will then pick them up , after being told just grab them, i rightfully said i purposely pulled 1 set of mobs because i had no cds, hlr had low mp so a big pull was not happening just because dmg is there does not mean everything else is ready.

my rules for pulling are thus:
-Tank -> Hlr -> Dps decides a big pull in that order. a tank that knows that can't handle them is just going to be dead thus you will too, hlr that can't handle it will bring great death to the party, dps that can't handle it may lead to death, dps are the bottom of this totem poll for a reason so long as tank and hlr can handle big pulls they tend to go fine
-Everyone in Boss arena your ready so pull
-Ignore the 1st 2 You pull it you tank it till you die then i'll pick it up preventing the other people from being pseudo tanks.

Most good tanks know when it is ok to pull big and when not to, people usually are not wanting to stress other people out if they can help it and no cds tanks doing big pulls will do that for you as a hlr even worse when a random dps decides hey lets bring more to chomp on our bones >_>

[CazzT]

Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

If you can't wait for the team to be ready, you can tank what you pull. That's neither bad nor outdated.