RDM thoughts and tuning needed

[Maero]

Aside from healers (looking at you sch) no other jobs have mana issues that i am aware of.
Red Mage was by no means at the top so why have they made it so mana starved i have to wonder?
Granted this expansion will be the first time i will not be a caster main i started back on Red Mage and even with not raising people Lucid does not suffice i think.
Savage raids are not even out can not imagine it be better if they do not fix things

I have read a post someone made i believe in another thread that stated Red Mage is fine and does or should not run out of mana, that is so very false. Must not be doing actual dps rotation..

[Duskane]

Manafiction buff really needs to be stronger or extend the duration 5% every 110 seconds for only 10 seconds is really mediocre

i would understand reprise as a quick mana dump if it didn't eat up a dual cast and had something else to it besides Verscathe

Contre strix + aoe trait at 78 really should have really what these should have been from beginning not a trait at 78

engagement cool idea just really needed to match displacement in potency not really be a gamble for DPS in some arenas, looks nice though

leveling RDM 72-78 skills and traits just feel like a joke its like the exact opposite of samurai in that regards
amazing skills and traits 72-78 mediocre skill at 80

new Aoe is nice and Scortch is a great skill


also from other about MP thread

really all they would have to do is either
let manafiction give us some MP
or
Melee combo+moulinet gives us MP

all done frequently enough that + lucid really shouldn't be much of a MP issue

[Jonnycbad]

RDM MP is kinda iffy but I think my issue is not using LD every 60 sec. Now that it's a 60s recast, you really do have to remember to weave it in whenever it's available. Old lucid was a much longer recast and restored a lot more, so you didn't have to remember to use it as much. When I made a conscious effort to use LD every 60s without fail, I was always >70% MP unless I had to rez people.

Also I wish Manification's buff was 12s instead of 10s. At 10s, when I dash in to do melee combo, it's at 1s when I cast Scorch. Any small delay or GCD clipping will have it fall off before I can cast Scorch. Maybe they can make our finishers cost less MP, or make our melee combo restore 500 MP per hit like Riot Blade/Spirits Within.

[Jonnycbad]

engagement cool idea just really needed to match displacement in potency not really be a gamble for DPS in some arenas, looks nice though

Yeah but Engagement can be double weaved, and weaved mid-melee combo. If you only use Engagement, you get more uses out of it then Displacement since you wouldn't need to delay it till an opportune moment. That's why it's weaker. You get more casts out of it than Displacement,

[Typhoria]

I dunno what you guys are on about, but Embolden offers a lot of damage to the group. All the big damage is frontloaded into the first 2 tiers of the buff, which of course matches up with Trick Attack's duration. Unless y'all are lining it up so the 4% and 2% windows are what you get in Trick, it gives the group way more damage than the neutered Devotion.

Devotion at least is 5% for everyone. Groups have to be made around Embolden to maximize it, so no Black Mages or Summoners.

Healers get zero benefit from Embolden. Paladin's and most of Ninja's burst window and Dark Knight MP spender is magic.
So even with a group built around it, only about half the group benefits.

[Leidiriv]

Regarding Paladin, Embolden is aligned with Trick, which falls squarely in the FoF window, not the Req window. Embolden may have no healer and caster synergy, but with DRK for example, there's still a massive chunk of their burst window that's physical (C&S, 2x Plunge, 5x Bloodspiller) and does benefit from Embolden. Devotion may be an omnibuff, but its far longer cooldown naturally drifts from other major buffs like Chain Stratagem, Dragon Sight, and Technical Step, while Embolden remains squarely in-line with them for the entire fight.

[Rongway]

Then I suppose by extension of that logic, wouldn't the extra 3 be cancelled out by virtue of the Verfinisher ideally proccing a Ready ability, which is 3 Mana more than Jolt?

Yes, you're mostly right about that. It gets more complicated because it's possible to go into the combo with both Verfastspells Ready, in which case the extra mana and damage that those Verfastspells would do over Jolt is already accounted for by the spells cast leading up to the combo; or it might be appropriate to use the "wrong" Verfinisher even without Acceleration, in which case there's only a 20% chance to generate those extra 3 mana and 20 potency. So the expected value will be less than 3 mana and 20 potency.

2) To determine that, let's compare the potency per second of all the GCD actions we can take.
Jolt + Dualcast: 560 pot / 5s = 112 pps
Fire/Stone + Dualcast: 590 pot / 5s = 118 pps

These are really the same case. The expected values of Jolt+Verslowspell are 250 potency and 6 mana for Jolt II, 310 potency and 11 mana for the Verslowspell, and 50% of the (20 potency and 3 mana) difference for the proc.

Jolt+Verslowspell: 570 potency, 5s, +18.5 mana

[the rest of the post]

I'm not sure what we're arguing about here? I never said anything that contradicts your recommendations about which spenders to use and when. All I said was the opportunity costs of not casting should be taken into account.

[Warlyx]

a potency boost wouldnt hurt and yeah embolden needs some love

i still think reprise would be cool if the cost was just only for the higher magic at the time of cast , for example 93 white - 73 black , only take white magic as cost

maybe we get a convert spell later and way to convert white <> black.....

oh btw mana gained on aoe spells its too low ....i can only moulinet every other pull is just a bit meh , 1 pull full verAoE next moulinet spam ....

[Leidiriv]

I'm not sure what we're arguing about here? I never said anything that contradicts your recommendations about which spenders to use and when. All I said was the opportunity costs of not casting should be taken into account.

I'm arguing that time spent on a melee combo can't really be compared to time that could have been spent building up to a melee combo, because the entire point of building mana is for the melee combo.

[Archwizard]

maybe we get a convert spell later and way to convert white <> black.....

What... even would be the point of that though?

The only way I could see that being of value is if you're about to pop a Verfinisher but you already have the corresponding Ready proc? Which is not of huge value as it stands...

I'd argue there would maybe be more value in a skill that swaps the procs directly, since at least then you could use it like Transpose for BLM to keep their timers rolling if the boss has a long transition. Even then, not a huge value.