Tanks and spam windows

[Izsha]

Yeah, it was mega subtle...

To be fair, according to this forum drk has been shit for years so nothing new in ShB. Nut you do have burst wh9ch is one thing drks really wanted. There were a lot of wishes granted. Improved mobility. Less da spam. Burst. Party utility. Etc. It isnt all bad. It just isnt perfect eithet. And there are plenty of wars that hate the ungabunga memecleave it has become. There is plenty of sympathy for spreading these silly 1 dimensional burst windows. And for some of the items se didnt fix like immunities and tbn being to risky to use in many cases and lots of other things.

SE did a lot right with this expansions for tanks. Tank stances, rebalanced mitigation, fixed accessories. Added much needed utility balance. They really did do a lot. They also dropped the ball on a handful of things, and had some mediocre additions like this one. It gets the job done of giving drk burst. Is it creative? Ingenious? No. But neither is IR. Were all in this same shit boat together, but the tank boat is overall is looking pretty good all things considered.

[Satarn]

To be fair, according to this forum drk has been shit for years so nothing new in ShB. Nut you do have burst wh9ch is one thing drks really wanted. There were a lot of wishes granted. Improved mobility. Less da spam. Burst.

Okay, now you're just misrepresenting the situation. Sure, there were people who asked for burst and DA removal, but there's also been plenty of people suggesting more ways to spend MP instead and a lot of people asking for return to more HW-like DRK, which SHB is basically the opposite of. Also what mobility you're talking about? Charges which nobody thought of and which just make delaying Plunge less of a dps loss than before? The Plunge feedback has always been about it's range and that's still unchanged.

SE did a lot right with this expansions for tanks. Tank stances, rebalanced mitigation (...) but the tank boat is overall is looking pretty good all things considered.

Subjective. Highly subjective.

[Hanayome]

The argument I agree with is that the new Delirium works towards homogenizing tank rotations and it wasn't very creative of SE to just slap that onto DRK.

That being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with pressing the same skill on GCD (meaning weavable) 5 times in a row once every 1.5 minutes. Yes I fully agree that the actual pressing of a button 5 times in a row is by no means a complex or inspiring tactic, but theres a certain primal joy from being able to spam your big move especially when its at no resource cost. Its not MEANT to be intellectually stimulating - just fun.

Everyone keeps comparing the new Delirium to Inner Release, but I've heard nothing about how PLD's Requiescat is basically the same thing, unless we're continuing the meme that PLD is meant to be boring.

And no, obviously you do more than 1 2 3 throughout a fight, wiseguys. My point is that spamming a DPS combo is, imo just a lot more repetitive than IR or Requiescat phase. I remember quite a few people mourning the loss of Scourge and the old combo finisher Delirium because of how repetitive and bland it made the DRK rotation.

[Jandor]

SE did a lot right with this expansions for tanks. Tank stances, rebalanced mitigation, fixed accessories. Added much needed utility balance. They really did do a lot.

I sort of wish they hadn't tbh.

theres a certain primal joy from being able to spam your big move especially when its at no resource cost. Its not MEANT to be intellectually stimulating - just fun.

There was already a job for people that find that fun.

Everyone keeps comparing the new Delirium to Inner Release, but I've heard nothing about how PLD's Requiescat is basically the same thing, unless we're continuing the meme that PLD is meant to be boring.

People have been comparing Inner Release and Requiescat for years.

[shao32]

Let's be clear, there is nothing wrong this mechanic exist at all, it's a mechanic that you can like or not and is fine have 1 job work around that making it unique for the ppl that love this stuff.
But, when we start slam this mechanic on every job at the cost of the old gameplay in the process we have a problem, a serious one BCS the ones that enjoy such job 4 years now get a middle finger and a dealt with it from the devs.
Well meaby not so direct but that's how I personally I feel, specially when the lyth feedback thread offer several options to change our skills but in a way that have more sinergy with our old gameplay, all that feedback for nothing.

Now comparing inner release with requiem cast, in essence they are the same but work diferent and this expansion they are going to be more different with now PLD getting a finish for the window while inner release estay the same.
Delirium it's just equal, same recast, same duration, the only difference is DRK generate resources and WAR all crits, but in the end WAR "generate" resources reducing the recast of infuriate with every fell cleave.

[Big-Isaac]

That being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with pressing the same skill on GCD (meaning weavable) 5 times in a row once every 1.5 minutes. Yes I fully agree that the actual pressing of a button 5 times in a row is by no means a complex or inspiring tactic, but theres a certain primal joy from being able to spam your big move especially when its at no resource cost. Its not MEANT to be intellectually stimulating - just fun.

I'd argue that there are multiple things wrong with it.
Your mileage may vary, but as I said in the OP, personally I cooled on the Req window pretty quickly. The problem is that you're still a tank, not a DPS. This means that your big DPS window still does mediocre damage at best.
Popping a CD and then spamming your strongest move can be fun, but it's the equivalent of a can of pringles - it's shallow enjoyment that's fine while it's there, but doesn't last long and leaves you empty afterwards.
Conversely, having your big nuke phase come from proper setup is like a nice steak dinner - harder to do and rarer, but provides a much grander experiences and keeps you satisfied far longer

[Lyth]

The issue that was raised around burst is this: the higher your burst, the less dps you should do under target dummy conditions. This is because burst synergizes better with raid buffs and punishes you less for uptime losses outside your burst window.

The problem is that we've turned burst into WAR's identity. So even if you make the other tanks more burst orientated, they're still going to be at a disadvantage relative to WAR out of necessity - otherwise we'll never hear the end of it. (Remember that Onslaught thread?)

WAR has Fell Cleave? Here, have Holy Spirit and Bloodspiller an expansion later, except with less potency. WAR has IR? That's fine, have DelIRium an expansion later, except without the Crit/DH buff. Please look forward to an Inner Chaos clone in 6.0, except at a lower potency. Nobody wants your hand-me-downs.

In fairness, there were a lot of things that were done right. The removal of slashing was essential. Removing the LB cheese associated with SiO was also a smart move. Removing the damage penalty and costs associated with stances was equally fantastic. Hey, I'm pretty sure that I've seen specific threads that asked for all these things. Good things happen when you listen to your playerbase.

I think the main priority should be revising the invulns, though.

[gman1311]

What I'm wondering is... why? Do people really like these types of spam windows or something? Speaking for myself, I got over the hype of Req>HS pretty quickly at the start of SB. There's just nothing special about popping a CD and then hammering the same button for 10ish seconds.

Because I enjoy those big numbers! If I could I would find a way for fellcleave hit 50k. I could play blackmage, but UNGA BUNGA!

[WhyAmIHere]

Subjective. Highly subjective.

DPS no longer have to get yelled at to use Diversion, as it's gone.
Tanks just toggle tank stance for hate and no longer do less damage for performing the functions of their job: generating enmity.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a tank main that things the change to tank stance is a bad one. PLD I bet likes having an oGCD tank stance finally.

[Big-Isaac]

Here's the thing about burst: There's no need to give every tank the same mechanic just to achieve burst potential.
Burst just means you're able to cram a lot of damage into a small buff window. How you get to that damage doesn't have to be the same across all jobs at all.

PLD:
Avenging Wrath (uh, get the reference?): Upgrades from Fight or Flight via a trait. Increases your damage done by 20% for X seconds and enables to use of Confiteor. XY% of the damage you deal is added to your next Confiteor. Casting Confiteor downgrades the effect to Fight or Flight.

With this, Confiteor becomes this ungodly huge and satisfying nuke you drop when the burst window is just about to close. You can balance the total damage you do during Avenging Wrath to be around equal to WAR's IR window, yet both jobs would be achieving that damage in different ways.