Happy Healer in 5.0 thread

[Saefinn]

Except the analogy is garbage.

Healers got a uniform healing kit. Tanks got a uniform mitigation kit.
Enmity was completely wiped out from any management from everyone.
Healers got a uniform DPS kit. Tanks have -had- a uniform DPS kit.

Tanks have had a spam combo, a maintenance combo, and now an AoE combo.
Healers have a spam spell, a maintenance spell, and an aoe spell.

The primary difference between tanks come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.
The primary difference between healers come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.

If say Paladin got the same treatment as healers have got over the years then this is what Paladin's skills would look like (from my post in another thread):

Fair point. My reasoning for my analogy was the 3-4 DPS skills is what we have left. A single target (Broil/Stone/Malefic), a DoT (Biolysis/Dia/Combust), an AoE (Art of War/Holy/Gravity) and WHM/AST get the 4th of an Assize or Earthly Star (which have a cooldown) and I guess the one WHM gets from a black lily (which happens at minimum, every 90 secs). So I was giving the benefit of the doubt in that respect. But effectively feels like you're just spamming the same ability over and over, occassionally adding a DoT and occassionally adding an attack from a cooldown.

So we could strip it for Paladin to:
-Perma tank stance, you get to keep hate without effort (which they're kinda getting anyway - except in this scenario, you can't turn it off, we lost our DPS stance a long time ago).
-Fast Blade for single target
-Total Eclipse for AoE
-Goring Blade for DoT

Everything else you do is your tank defensive cool downs, because surviving and taking damage for everybody else is a tank's role.

I think that'd be about as accurate as I think I can make it, to strip Paladin to what healers get.

I could add Circle Of Scorn to balance with Assize/Earthly Star, but I'm a Scholar.

And to add Paladins complained back in 2.0 that the job wasn't interesting, because their rotation as a tank was basically "1, 2, 3" and their tank cool downs and flash, ever since they've evolved to get new DPS rotations, healing mechanics and are generally a lot more fun to play versus 2.0 Paladin. Paladin was a reliable tank and could tank well. It didn't need more from a mechanics point of view, but it did from an enjoyment point of view and they got it. I have PLD to 70 on an alt and I like what they've done with it and have PLD levelled back in 2.0 and could see why people didn't like it.

[Kabooa]

If say Paladin got the same treatment as healers have got over the years then this is what Paladin's skills would look like (from my post in another thread):

You know what.

Fine. That's fair.

I personally don't find A->A->A->A less engaging than A->A->B->A->A->B, but I understand why some would. Paladin is honestly the second worst example I'd use for engaging gameplay progression, losing out to Warrior.

[Bright-Flower]

If say Paladin got the same treatment as healers have got over the years then this is what Paladin's skills would look like (from my post in another thread):



And to add Paladins complained back in 2.0 that the job wasn't interesting, because their rotation as a tank was basically "1, 2, 3" and their tank cool downs and flash, ever since they've evolved to get new DPS rotations, healing mechanics and are generally a lot more fun to play versus 2.0 Paladin. Paladin was a reliable tank and could tank well. It didn't need more from a mechanics point of view, but it did from an enjoyment point of view and they got it. I have PLD to 70 on an alt and I like what they've done with it and have PLD levelled back in 2.0 and could see why people didn't like it.

Yeah. PLD still isn't a complicated job but it's gotten more fun with every expansion. HW gave us proper dps combos and clemency. SB gave us requiscat/holy spirit.

In dungeons our aoe currently is CoS > Flash (x however many times you need) then spam total eclipse. Now we're getting a two part aoe combo and aoe spells for a burst phase. It's going to be a lot more fun dealing with aoe in dungeons in ShB than now even if the 'tanking' part of 'gather mobs, establish enmity, aoe' isn't really changing. And the single target rotation is getting some touch ups too with atonement and the new spell phase finisher.

And with healers something to keep in mind too is they still have to dps for quests and solo instances, and simplifying their dps toolkit too much will make those as well as older group instances more dull when there just isn't any healing needed at the moment.

[Saefinn]

Yeah. PLD still isn't a complicated job but it's gotten more fun with every expansion. HW gave us proper dps combos and clemency. SB gave us requiscat/holy spirit.

In dungeons our aoe currently is CoS > Flash (x however many times you need) then spam total eclipse. Now we're getting a two part aoe combo and aoe spells for a burst phase. It's going to be a lot more fun dealing with aoe in dungeons in ShB than now even if the 'tanking' part of 'gather mobs, establish enmity, aoe' isn't really changing. And the single target rotation is getting some touch ups too with atonement and the new spell phase finisher.

And with healers something to keep in mind too is they still have to dps for quests and solo instances, and simplifying their dps toolkit too much will make those as well as older group instances more dull when there just isn't any healing needed at the moment.

Aye, that is one of the other issues. Honestly, if their intention is to put a great emphasis on healing over DPS, then they can make the content more challenging for healers, which they may well be doing for Shadowbringers. Because if the content is making the healers heal more then they are DPSing less. But there is all of the pre-existing content (for new healers, levelling roulettes, trial roulettes etc.) and pressumably the game's solo content too.

[Bright-Flower]

Aye, that is one of the other issues. Honestly, if their intention is to put a great emphasis on healing over DPS, then they can make the content more challenging for healers, which they may well be doing for Shadowbringers. Because if the content is making the healers heal more then they are DPSing less. But there is all of the pre-existing content (for new healers, levelling roulettes, trial roulettes etc.) and pressumably the game's solo content too.

This is the main reason I'm a bit nervous. Will it be a sudden jump after 70 levels to go into ShB and have a lot more damage going out? If so, will that be too jarring? If not, will it even make a difference? And what about solo/old content?