Happy Healer in 5.0 thread

[Kabooa]

This analogy right here needs to be seen by all the antagonistic white knights feigning ignorance on many of our grievances with how healers are being treated. People have very little scope outside of their own limited perspective so perhaps applying these healer changes to their beloved tanks/dps might change their minds? Kind of sad that we have to do that, it isn’t hard to see the massive inconsistency with the roles design philosophies... tanks get some heals, plenty of damage options and mitigation, dps do too, but healers? Screw healers. They just get the bare basics and they BETTER like it.

Except the analogy is garbage.

Healers got a uniform healing kit. Tanks got a uniform mitigation kit.
Enmity was completely wiped out from any management from everyone.
Healers got a uniform DPS kit. Tanks have -had- a uniform DPS kit.

Tanks have had a spam combo, a maintenance combo, and now an AoE combo.
Healers have a spam spell, a maintenance spell, and an aoe spell.

The primary difference between tanks come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.
The primary difference between healers come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.

[EaMett]

Tanks have had a spam combo, a maintenance combo, and now an AoE combo.
Healers have a spam spell, a maintenance spell, and an aoe spell.

I can't tell for sure what the scope of your rebuttal is. Maybe you're just commenting on the analogy or maybe it's also a comment on how healers are ok. But if it's the later, I like how it totally glosses over the quoted section as it being ok/normal. "Spam spell" is a pretty ominous gameplay description.

[Urthdigger]

Except the analogy is garbage.

Healers got a uniform healing kit. Tanks got a uniform mitigation kit.
Enmity was completely wiped out from any management from everyone.
Healers got a uniform DPS kit. Tanks have -had- a uniform DPS kit.

Tanks have had a spam combo, a maintenance combo, and now an AoE combo.
Healers have a spam spell, a maintenance spell, and an aoe spell.

The primary difference between tanks come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.
The primary difference between healers come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.

Except my analogy wasn't about differences between each healer. It was about how DPS was gutted for them and how non-healers just say "But that's not your role, why do you care?" When I know damn well that warriors would be just as mad over losing Fell Cleave, and tanks in general wouldn't be happy being told to just hold enmity, pop cooldowns, and otherwise twiddle their thumbs.

I could make a similar analogy for DPS, but let's be real, you could gut their job to just a single button for doing damage and most of them would be happy.

[Kabooa]

I can't tell for sure what the scope of your rebuttal is. Maybe you're just commenting on the analogy or maybe it's also a comment on how healers are ok. But if it's the later, I like how it totally glosses over the quoted section as it being ok/normal. "Spam spell" is a pretty ominous gameplay description.

It's in the first line.

The analogy is garbage.

My own thoughts on the healing changes are mixed, and changing the more I get to reflect on it.

[Haxaan]

After binge watching videos of the Healer adjustments for the past week I have come to the conclusion that if, and this is a big if, the encounters in SHB push outgoing damage in a way that makes healing necessary and doesn't leave much room for downtime then having the current healing adjustments may be engaging enough for us to have fun. The problem that many healers I've spoken with are having is not so much "OH MY DPS!" (well maybe sch's) but how boring their jobs will be.

AST has only had a dot, a single target spam and an aoe dps spell since inception, so the level grind (which if you haven't leveled an AST the old school way, I recommend it so you can see how mind numbing it is) is something we're used to. The reason most people I know play healer is because it is fun and supportive and always busy. If there is no adjustment to outgoing damage in any given scenario many, if not most, healers dps or do some sort of support actions in the downtime. While it appears that SCH has gotten an insane healing boost and WHM has gotten some nice upgrades to lillies and pdps, they still don't seem to have much to do in the way of non-healing downtime. AST at least has their cards, which with the new system seems like it will keep us busy at least, which is a good sign. I will absolutely miss Time Dilation and the Buff extension for CO, but I'm coming to terms with that.

I am still withholding judgment until I get my hands on the jobs and am hopeful that the changes are for the better, or at least are a step in the right direction. At first I was very disappointed but I am giving the devs the benefit of the doubt and praying that if these changes aren't better that they will listen to the community and adjust things in a positive way. I love this game and I understand that change is hard, especially when you Love the way things are currently.

[EaMett]

My own thoughts on the healing changes are mixed, and changing the more I get to reflect on it.

That's fair enough

[Saefinn]

Except the analogy is garbage.

Healers got a uniform healing kit. Tanks got a uniform mitigation kit.
Enmity was completely wiped out from any management from everyone.
Healers got a uniform DPS kit. Tanks have -had- a uniform DPS kit.

Tanks have had a spam combo, a maintenance combo, and now an AoE combo.
Healers have a spam spell, a maintenance spell, and an aoe spell.

The primary difference between tanks come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.
The primary difference between healers come from the way their Ability / Supplemental kit works.

If say Paladin got the same treatment as healers have got over the years then this is what Paladin's skills would look like (from my post in another thread):

Fair point. My reasoning for my analogy was the 3-4 DPS skills is what we have left. A single target (Broil/Stone/Malefic), a DoT (Biolysis/Dia/Combust), an AoE (Art of War/Holy/Gravity) and WHM/AST get the 4th of an Assize or Earthly Star (which have a cooldown) and I guess the one WHM gets from a black lily (which happens at minimum, every 90 secs). So I was giving the benefit of the doubt in that respect. But effectively feels like you're just spamming the same ability over and over, occassionally adding a DoT and occassionally adding an attack from a cooldown.

So we could strip it for Paladin to:
-Perma tank stance, you get to keep hate without effort (which they're kinda getting anyway - except in this scenario, you can't turn it off, we lost our DPS stance a long time ago).
-Fast Blade for single target
-Total Eclipse for AoE
-Goring Blade for DoT

Everything else you do is your tank defensive cool downs, because surviving and taking damage for everybody else is a tank's role.

I think that'd be about as accurate as I think I can make it, to strip Paladin to what healers get.

I could add Circle Of Scorn to balance with Assize/Earthly Star, but I'm a Scholar.

And to add Paladins complained back in 2.0 that the job wasn't interesting, because their rotation as a tank was basically "1, 2, 3" and their tank cool downs and flash, ever since they've evolved to get new DPS rotations, healing mechanics and are generally a lot more fun to play versus 2.0 Paladin. Paladin was a reliable tank and could tank well. It didn't need more from a mechanics point of view, but it did from an enjoyment point of view and they got it. I have PLD to 70 on an alt and I like what they've done with it and have PLD levelled back in 2.0 and could see why people didn't like it.

[Kabooa]

If say Paladin got the same treatment as healers have got over the years then this is what Paladin's skills would look like (from my post in another thread):

You know what.

Fine. That's fair.

I personally don't find A->A->A->A less engaging than A->A->B->A->A->B, but I understand why some would. Paladin is honestly the second worst example I'd use for engaging gameplay progression, losing out to Warrior.

[ForteNightshade]

so again you rolled a healer and expected to have amazing DPS?

I mean i am a paladin and i have heal but that doesn't make me a healer. that would be like me going into the expac saying "man wtf Yoshi-P why didn't you give my heal any love! i wanna be a healer that can tank every once in a while"

no if you want to play a DPS that has a heal play a redmage or summoner.

Imagine if RDM achieved its damage by spamming 121212121212 and only occasionally weaved in a couple oGCDs. Congratulations. You now have what a standard healer rotation looks like. This is what healers are upset about. Unless content hits harder, they're already glorified DPS with boring DPS abilities. What we have seen thus far is more of the same... except even less DPS.

[Kabooa]

Imagine if RDM achieved its damage by spamming 121212121212 and only occasionally weaved in a couple oGCDs. Congratulations. You now have what a standard healer rotation looks like. This is what healers are upset about. Unless content hits harder, they're already glorified DPS with boring DPS abilities. What we have seen thus far is more of the same... except even less DPS.

But Red Mage is a job in the DPS role. It will obviously have a more robust DPS rotation.

How does Red Mage's healing kit look?