Healer boycott in 5.0

[Josco]

..... and the vocal minority tends to be just that, a minority.

The people you see on the forums is less than 1% of the paying subscribers, and a good number of them are more than happy to play with the changes as-is, or are confident that tweaks will be made that things will get better.

Even if you took the entirety of the FFXIV Reddit users, it's still such a small slice of the game's actual population.

I'd say that the exit of some of the more vocal minorities could actually be healthy for the game, as these are some of the players who tend to nitpick and whine about the dumbest things.

Spoken like a true Blizzard employee! Go see how that mentality is working out for them.

In the business world, it's understood every angry customer who seeks out a way to complain represents many times that who just silently walk away.

Generally, this team has listened to the community, but for WHM specifically they just are taking a stand on principle or something...idk.

[Truen]

Spoken like a true Blizzard employee! Go see how that mentality is working out for them.

In the business world, it's understood every angry customer who seeks out a way to complain represents many times that who just silently walk away.

Generally, this team has listened to the community, but for WHM specifically they just are taking a stand on principle or something...idk.

Well said.

[BlitzAceRush]

Spoken like a true Blizzard employee! Go see how that mentality is working out for them.

In the business world, it's understood every angry customer who seeks out a way to complain represents many times that who just silently walk away.

Generally, this team has listened to the community, but for WHM specifically they just are taking a stand on principle or something...idk.

By that logic they can neither do anything but also need to do everything because no matter what they do or don't do, there will always be someone whose "angry"
At the end of the day they must be doing something right because FFXIV is still growing with each expansion, personally I like the changes but if they're that bad they'll make adjustments in 5.1 like they normally do, but at the end of the day they can't please everyone and change is always going to upset someone, just as doing nothing would, they picked a path and some like myself like it, and by using your own logic as I'm here voicing that, there must be many silently agreeing with me.
But who knows, perhaps you're right, theses changes are awful, the sky is falling and this will ruin the game, or perhaps people will just adapt and move on, and given how the game just keeps growing I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the sky to fall.

[Alfric]

I personally don’t think the nerfs are AWFUL mh.. I guess Scholar did lose some damage abilities which sucks.. but I kinda wanna think of it in the perspective of the developers. Astro was really really strong because of the buffs, but mostly Balance and Spear were always being used and the rest were burned for this that or the other. Maybe they see this and it wasn’t their vision for the job. I have all three healers capped to 70 and I think in general raiding and dungeons, they will play similarly(in healing terms) just stronger. I understand why everyone is frustrated but it definitely doesn’t hurt to give it a chance ^^’ right?

[Urthdigger]

That's not what I said.

Obviously, a healer should be casting DPS spells while they're not healing. Obviously.

The devs want there to be moments where the healer isn't required to be pumping out constant heals, because of things like lag, slower reaction times, players needing to think about what they're doing, etc. Not everybody is a machine who can operate with <0.5s MoE.

So they want the healers to have time to cast DPS spells, to give that extra buffer. Said DPS spells are not required but yet I will say that I enjoy throwing rocks now and then in-between my heals, and I like not having to worry about doing constant heals. I hate it when tanks pull 2+ groups of mobs and I'm chain-casting Cure2 barely being able to keep up with some overzealous tank (who is either under-geared or not using his cooldowns properly, usually). I hate that kind of gameplay. It's not fun.

And again, I'll point you to WoW where if you're not pumping out constant heals, people will die and it will be your fault and it is terrible gameplay. If you're not quite sure of your rotation, or if you're having lag, well the game doesn't care. People will die anyways.

So you feel that healers shouldn't be required to chain-cast heals back to back to get through content, and that they should do something during downtime instead of sitting around with their thumbs up their butts... yet you're absolutely fine with them decimating our tools for doing stuff during that downtime?

[TaleraRistain]

I had concerns about my class before SB as well. Some of those did turn out to be accurate. But I played the content and provided detailed and constructive feedback on what they could do to fix the problems.

I'm going to do the same here. I'm not really concerned with not dpsing so long as the encounter gives me enough to do. I have always wanted to be kept busy with support, not dps, since I chose the green role and not the red one. Now if we are standing around bored, then it will be time to give more of that feedback. But I need to get in there and poke around myself, or I can't give them the sort of details they need to make good fixes.

[MizArai]

Because it's too much work for the easily triggered crybaby fanbase to you know, actually experience something first and make an informed decision.
Besides, we know they're all bluster anyways. They'll be back once their queue times suffer.

As I keep saying, "Hello Trust System!" I don't think my queue times will suffer any thanks.

So you feel that healers shouldn't be required to chain-cast heals back to back to get through content, and that they should do something during downtime instead of sitting around with their thumbs up their butts... yet you're absolutely fine with them decimating our tools for doing stuff during that downtime?

This times like a million or so! I'm trying to keep up with Maeka's arguments, but they seem all over the place.

I usually like to at least give something a chance before passing instant judgment on it.

See, Yoshi-P and team playtested it. We haven't.

You're going to talk like you know better than the team who went through a rigorous design phase, playtesting phase, etc?

You're going to talk like you know more about the subject than they do?

Really?

But go ahead, throw your tantrums, etc. I'll enjoy my faster Q times, and my commendations.

Which is a GOOD thing. It creates a bit of a buffer, to where you can do stuff other than healing, or if you've got slower reaction times, you won't end up causing wipes because you weren't healing with 0.5s margin of error like in WoW.

I've tried WoW healing and it is everything you're asking for, MOAR HEALING and .... it sucks. A lot. You have very little forgiveness, very little margin of error.

Trust me. It's better the way it is in FFXIV.

They also play tested before 4.0. There were a lot of similar changes and gutting of SCH done back then. People could see from the tool tips and the small amount of media tour game play that things were not good for healers. SCH changes started coming SUPER early in the patch cycle because of how bad things were. Just because we haven't played it this time doesn't mean we need to play it first. We can see the writing on the wall.

*shrugs* The Devs have different goals/likes than we do.

The Devs thought 4.0 was fine when they first playtested it, but the players in their infinite GOTTA GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO mentality that is a disease upon Duty Finder content were all whiny and crap.

I'm getting the feeling that the Devs are not so impatient, and not speedrunners that absolutely must finish dungeons in 15 minutes or less type mentality. But they release these classes and the speedrunners complain because it doesn't work as well for speedrunning and the Devs have to adjust.

*shrug*

But then I'm of the opinion we should put obstacles after every single pull to stop this absurd speedrun crap.

Actually no, it wasn't people trying to speed run things that was the problem. It was scholars honestly had problems getting through content because of how badly they were nerfed. I worry about making it through MSQ and just being able to kill monsters out in the world with what we've seen. Healers are squishy, and even if I can heal myself through a fight, if I can't damage something because I'm constantly healing myself, then it's not a good thing. I normally play pretty much by myself. It has not been fun at certain points in the past, and Shadowbringers looks to be a repeat of not fun.

The more rational people are going "Eh, dunno if gusta but we'll see about this." and the whiny crybabies are going "WAAAAAH I QUIT WAAAAH WAAAAAAH WAAAAH ITS RUINED WAAAAH WAAAH"

They see a small part of the puzzle, they haven't seen any of the bosses' mechanics, the fights, the dungeon designs, how the tanks and healers' changes are going to mesh together, none of that stuff, and they're already passing judgment on a fraction of the picture without seeing the rest.

That's true, we haven't seen if mechanics demand the more healing that we've been given this expansion. Looking at past designs makes it doubtful, and based on simple things like similar (bad) changes that happened with Stormblood launch we have every right to look at the current information and say things need to change. Because we'd rather the dev team started working on changes now so we can hopefully get them soon after launch instead attempting to play broken healers until 5.05 or 5.1 (or later).

Here's a protip for you: What you want, isn't necessary what the devs want, and vice-versa.

The devs don't want healers to feel like they have to constantly mash their heal buttons non-stop. That creates too hectic of an environment, especially in Duty Finder content. They want 80%+ of the population to be able to comfortably pass Duty Finder stuff, so that everybody can see the story. They never intended Duty Finder to be aimed at the hardcore crowd whatsoever.

Actually Yoshida is on record quite a few times saying that he doesn't want so much emphasis put on healer DPS and that all content is created to be cleared without any healer DPS (and tested to make sure it's able to be done that way). It's the player base that wants to be able to DPS more and heal less, not the other way around.

As healers, we're constantly confused by the growing heal kits we get, especially since most of it goes unused. Our thought being if we're going to be given these huge healing kits, then we should be given content where it's needed. Since it's not needed, please don't give us this. And instead we get more healing in our kits and nothing to use it on.

..... and the vocal minority tends to be just that, a minority.

The people you see on the forums is less than 1% of the paying subscribers, and a good number of them are more than happy to play with the changes as-is, or are confident that tweaks will be made that things will get better.

Even if you took the entirety of the FFXIV Reddit users, it's still such a small slice of the game's actual population.

I'd say that the exit of some of the more vocal minorities could actually be healthy for the game, as these are some of the players who tend to nitpick and whine about the dumbest things.

And yet the vocal anything is what will be heard. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all of that. Also, I doubt that the number of players here on the forums and on reddit consist of less than 1%. And you don't want to get rid of the people who play the game enough as a healer that they can look at tool tips and tell you if something is going to work well in game or not. It's not whining and nitpicking. It's experience.

That's not what I said.

Obviously, a healer should be casting DPS spells while they're not healing. Obviously.

The devs want there to be moments where the healer isn't required to be pumping out constant heals, because of things like lag, slower reaction times, players needing to think about what they're doing, etc. Not everybody is a machine who can operate with <0.5s MoE.

So they want the healers to have time to cast DPS spells, to give that extra buffer. Said DPS spells are not required but yet I will say that I enjoy throwing rocks now and then in-between my heals, and I like not having to worry about doing constant heals. I hate it when tanks pull 2+ groups of mobs and I'm chain-casting Cure2 barely being able to keep up with some overzealous tank (who is either under-geared or not using his cooldowns properly, usually). I hate that kind of gameplay. It's not fun.

And again, I'll point you to WoW where if you're not pumping out constant heals, people will die and it will be your fault and it is terrible gameplay. If you're not quite sure of your rotation, or if you're having lag, well the game doesn't care. People will die anyways.

Since the devs test all the fights with the healers standing around and only healing I'm not sure you can say they do want the healers to be casting DPS spells. I would be more of the opinion that, according to the devs, healers have DPS spells so they can clear the solo content in MSQ. That's not how most healers play in this game, since most of us don't want to just sit around not doing anything, but that is how the game is play tested.

For the record, I love when tanks pull 2+ groups in lvl 70 dungeons so I can regen + tetra, then swift+holy+assize, aero III, holy, see how badly the tank needs a heal, possibly medica II and maybe actually heal sometimes asylum instead. Maybe a clutch Benediction if I wasn't watching their health for a second too long. It's so much fun to actually be needed. I enjoy their life being in my hands. I just hope Urianger treats me well while I'm using the Trust system to get through things as I main DPS in Shadowbringers.

[Alrin]

Why not just wait for 5.0 to come out, try healing with the new changes, and then make a decision if you're going to continue doing it or not?

I play mainly healer classes so I was sad when they said there will not be new healer in 5.0. I told myself: Ok they are reworking existing healers instead so wait and see. That can be actually a good thing.

Now when changes are out I am...not really happy and I am thinking about changing main from AST to WHM since cards were main reason I liked that class and they changed that to the point I dont see how I can like that.

But as you said. Time will tell. I will try every healer class at max level and after that I will make my decision.

[Yuyuka3]

I play mainly healer classes so I was sad when they said there will not be new healer in 5.0. I told myself: Ok they are reworking existing healers instead so wait and see. That can be actually a good thing.

Now when changes are out I am...not really happy and I am thinking about changing main from AST to WHM since cards were main reason I liked that class and they changed that to the point I dont see how I can like that.

But as you said. Time will tell. I will try every healer class at max level and after that I will make my decision.

I agree with 90% you said, but... why change to WHM? It got nothing, it will be just as clunky, maybe even more so, than the other healers, and will still be able to do less for a party than AST. So, why switch at all?

[Darkpaw]

Alright this call for healers to boycott needs to stop. The people agreeing to this are wasting there time in a massive way.

1./ you have no idea, understanding, or respect for the power of a boycott like this.

2./ you will never get enough base support in this game to force your viewpoint as these forums make up a very small part of the community.

3./ your demands are based on a two month old test build, and your speculations are only based on a very miniscule grasp of new systems in place (e.g. new damage calculations, trial, dungeon, raid design.)

4./ the impact you think this will have on the game will not happen or even by some slim chance if it does happen others will switch to healer for those instaqueues or suffer trusts.

5./ these calls for boycotts, petitions for peoples jobs, calls for mass unsubs, are more detrimental then you realize and you have no respect for the consequences. What happens if a new player or someone interested in coming to this game for the first time decides to stop by these forums and check out community feedback? I know if i were one i would think twice before grabbing this game, and to make matters worse you are going from 0-200 without any hard facts about the final build. Do you see how asinine that is?