Healers in 5.0

[Kyohei]

Admittedly, SCH obviously isnt a full DPS. But in comparison to how DPS/TANK handle some off role utility as well as how the other healer's manage dps, SCH was a particularly DPS heavy class. Trimming back Potencies couldve been a solution, but then its buton bloat and people saying "How dare they remove our DPS! Its gonna be WHM now. Thanks alot! >"

I mean consider it this way. DPS have a DPS rotation that can throw in a support utility every now and then. The equivalent of this among healers is to have a Healer Rotation (or management) that can throw in a DPS attack every now and then. This will all be dependent on how content is handled in ShB. For better or worse, I give the devs enough credit to know that if healing is fairly easy, that the classes would be boring as well if theyre just spamming 1 attack and healing every 10 GCDs. I personally think ShB will be more healing intensive than the last two xpacs and youll have a lot less time to sit back adn pop out tons of DPS (for a healer).

They would've been very wrong to state such things since WHM would actually got two buttons to push and SCH would still be busy managing the short dps rotation... Would rather have downgraded potency but still enough to do than pushing two buttons.
Even if ShB will put up more healing challenge (which i'm actuallly not trusting the devs with), more than half of the time we're bound to play older duties because we have to do roulettes for tomestones. That's how they designed the game sadly, and it'll make playing healer a pain real quick.

I understand what you mean, but the healers management can't be equivalent to a full dps rotation in terms of "player input/second" if that's understandable. So the dps attack every now and then is actually a spamming in between heals.
Even if it's not dpsing, just having healing + something else to manage will be just good.

[Alex073088]

They should give the healers, chain combos or at least one of the other healers who wasn't scholar and let them get a bit finisher attack that or proc that heals or buffs the surrounding members. What they did was make the boring DPS rotation even more boring, they made the least enjoyable aspects of the job worse, they took away the scholars identity by making the scholar order the pet to cast it heals instead of being able to do that while casting spells. End Game is not the only place healers are played, leveling these classes is going to feel like a punishment we are paying for pressing our 1 button and occasional DOT. Square Enix truly have no clue what their players base desires, first no male Viera then trashing the last bit of fun with healers. Still no glamour egi's. I have no problem with them wanting the healers to heal more in the end game, you design it that way you do not take away the enjoyment of managing your dots and spells making the job even more boring than I ever thought possible.

[Alex073088]

Ok, Ill take two tacts to this:

First - even with MSQ content, you still dont know how thats gonna play out, particularly since they said theres gonna be role MSQ related stuff. Again, I think this is jumping the shark because you see your skills then assume "its gonna be boring." Until you have your hands on it, you really dont know, and I think people should be patient at the very least rather than working themselves up over it. Cause frankly, theyre not going to rebalance the classes this close to launch and theyre not on a mission to screw over healers by making their jobs so bloody boring no one will ever play one.

Second - Even if want to talk about skills, you play a healer. That means most of your kit is gonna revolve around healing. I play tanks generally, half my kits are mitigation based stuff. I dont sit here and think "HMM THIS BORING CAUSE AS A TANK I SHOULD HAVE MORE DPS IN MY KIT!" I know well enough that my kit is gonna have some things in it which dont play out to usefully in MSQ. Managing tank CDs on trash mobs during MSQ isnt exceptionally engaging. If you want a more expansive skill set for DPS during MSQ, then level as a DPS and dungeon grind as a healer. I mean if youre soloing fates, then yeah might be boring. If youre soloing hunts, might be boring. But you typically arent. In solo instances, you usually have NPC allies. So youre playing a class thats more restoration focused and complaining you dont get as large a damage kit as DPS focused jobs.

I mean apply your own logic to your choices: Why are you playing a healer if you dont like healing? It's not rocket science here. If you wanna do dps, cause you enjoying dpsing, playing a healer seems kinda not a brilliant decision when that kit is focused on mitigation/healing. Itd like me saying "You know, I enjoy threat management, mitigation, and being tanky. Imma go play a SMN!"

So I still dont see what the fuss is about in either case.

NOT assuming anything, we have the AST as a reference where they only have one casting spell and DOT and I am telling you that shit is boring AF

[Alex073088]

I believe playing a weaver will be more fun than playing any healer in a dungeon

[Melichoir]

NOT assuming anything, we have the AST as a reference where they only have one casting spell and DOT and I am telling you that shit is boring AF

We dont have the full information on the healers yet, nor is what we have final build information. Also, you dont have only 2 dps channels. You have at least 4, and potencies and damage outputs may change, some skills may get a damage output added to them if necessary. Again, this also depends on how encounters are handled. You may not have time to sit there and just be casting DPS for long periods of time. If everything releases and we play it and its just spam 2 skills over and over with a heal here or there, then you got reason to complain. But there's to many holes in the information for us to say definitively how its gonna be. UNLESS you really just want to be a DPS who can throw out some decent heals, then yeah, might be boring for you.

Way some of you carry on about these changes is that the devs just absolutely hate every last one of you healers and wants you to quit by forcing you to spam one button with a regen weaved in there. I am somewhat skeptical that is the case.

[Schan]

snip

I'm disagreeing in the basis of: content didn't need your big heals and they're now giving everyone more heals. What for? And you're happy they get more powerful heals? Again, what for?

I'm basically now stuck to hoping that content design heads a different direction while dreading the fact they won't even touch old content to reflect this possible need for more healing while leaving me spamming one button if i want to do anything other than healing. (i am looking forward to see how mp management is going to work though, but only because it's new. Let's hope i won't hate it once i get my hands on it.)

regarding SCH complaining I dunno. I don't feel it's just the dps loss. SCH as AST to me... they seem like the're complaining about the loss of decision making which is part of what makes healers fun. SCH had options to pick between damage or more heals. Now it stricly heals. AST had the different card effects and you had to decide on the fly especially if you got a bad hand. Now every card does the same thing and you fish for different seals for an aoe damage buff so basically it feels like it's balance aoe fishing again with a new fresh coat of paint.

Don't get me wrong. there are things I have liked. I like how they've picked up on the fact that WHM was frustrating to play if you had to actually use your gcds to heal and you had to sit there to cast while every other healer has aoes heals that are instant. WHM basically had a skill to speed up casting (which considering how fast some fights where it wasn't enough) or blow swiftcast which then you had to pray no one died (or use your smn/rdm as rez bots instead)
Also you keep bringing WHM up. You do realize WHM is arguably the one who is better off right? And neither of us can't really comment on WHM being buffed because combat changes will affect potencies so 500 potency right now might be different from 500 potency in Shadowbringers. Did it get some QOL changes? Definitely but I wouldn't call them "buffs". Not yet at least.

[Melorie]

The point here is hardly DPS. I main AST and AST dps is boring (something that I was hoping they would work on, but anyway). However, I was managing cards while doing it so things were more interesting. I had different cards, different combinations... I had skills that dealt with buff-duration.... It wasn't something hella complex but it was fun which is what matters. Scholar had a more heavy dps and fairy management also a lot of decision-making with the aetherflow stacks which was fun and felt rewarding. WHM had nothing, which was a problem. No we're all WHM and idk how that is good, honestly.

[Kyohei]

The point here is hardly DPS. I main AST and AST dps is boring (something that I was hoping they would work on, but anyway). However, I was managing cards while doing it so things were more interesting. I had different cards, different combinations... I had skills that dealt with buff-duration.... It wasn't something hella complex but it was fun which is what matters. Scholar had a more heavy dps and fairy management also a lot of decision-making with the aetherflow stacks which was fun and felt rewarding. WHM had nothing, which was a problem. No we're all WHM and idk how that is good, honestly.

Agreed. Those are the real concerns that make people alarmed, the loss of dps is hardly the reason.

[Raiya]

Everyone seems to think the answer to making gameplay for healers better is to just have more damage going out and I don't think that is the real solution. If everyone is mad about having DPS reduced to one or two buttons why would spamming one or two heal buttons make the gameplay any more engaging. There needs to be something different for healers sure and I am not quite sure what it is, but making auto attack damage high enough to eat through half a tanks hp is not going to make healing fun or more interesting, its going to just make them spam heals.

Look the simple truth is that Healer's like Tank's want to be able to DPS as well as heal. I dont mind healing being the first priority but in dungeons and solo content I want to be able to have enough decent DPS that's fun and engaging and NOT a 3 button snoozefest. AST suffered from lacking DPS options the most atm, WHM I actually enjoyed because I have the ability to do burst heals if needed but also put out staggered stuns as well as AoE Dot's and the occasional Assize. SCH was always fun having the ability to throw out AoE dot's and heal and have the fairy as well. The ONLY thing SCH lacked was a Medica 1 Equivelent as that hurt it compared to the other 2 healers. (Indomitabilly is unreliable as it's bound to Aetherflow).

Like I said before,

WHM needs to retain Aero III there's no need for it's removal if anything it's far more useful as a helpful DOT on pack mob pulls and WHM has the least skill bloat. If anything it should be getting an upgrade just like Aero II to Dia not deleted!
SCH needs to retain both Miasma and Miasma II as well as Bane we've been down this road before it's painful and full of grief and it it aint broke it shouldn't be fixed. AKA "Ah crap, here we go again"
AST cards do need adjustment's but the changes need to be less bland and fleshed out more, they should JUST be mirrors of one another they should have Determination, Direct Hit and Critical Hit bonuses as well, make it a little more useful. It also needs one or 2 more offensive spells it really struggles Damage wise even when doing solo content.

Overall the "pure healer" focus isnt a good one. People have disliked tanking in part because they dont want to just stand there and be the focus of mobs they want to be able to hit them back as well and ironically the removal of the stances means that Tanks are essentially the same as DPS but more focus on acting as a vanguard while beating down their opponents instead of a target with high defence. Healer's would want the same they want to be able to throw DPS out expecially if the tanks competent and well geared and be able to help bring down opponents not have literally 3 buttons and be reduced to mindless sniping of single enemies.

[WaterShield]

We dont have the full information on the healers yet, nor is what we have final build information. Also, you dont have only 2 dps channels. You have at least 4, and potencies and damage outputs may change, some skills may get a damage output added to them if necessary. Again, this also depends on how encounters are handled. You may not have time to sit there and just be casting DPS for long periods of time. If everything releases and we play it and its just spam 2 skills over and over with a heal here or there, then you got reason to complain. But there's to many holes in the information for us to say definitively how its gonna be. UNLESS you really just want to be a DPS who can throw out some decent heals, then yeah, might be boring for you.

Way some of you carry on about these changes is that the devs just absolutely hate every last one of you healers and wants you to quit by forcing you to spam one button with a regen weaved in there. I am somewhat skeptical that is the case.

As someone who started the game as a healer... I can confirm that the devs do hate healers. Seeing as they seem to have no idea how to make them fun.

Started in Heavensward and loved healing... now I'm actually enjoying the look of Tank classes of all things. Plus Dancer as a DPS does more to support the party than all 3 healers put together.

Mind boggling.