New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[linay]

"I can't wait to level my mnk to 70 so I can unlock dancer and level dancer to 70!"

Or just level it to 60, or boost.

[Awha]

Increased exp honestly made it worse for me personally, I leveled an alt with an FC mate during road to 60 and I got a to 60 before finishing the MSQ and was unable to learn skills because the job quests were gated behind the MSQ. The bonus exp just exacerbates the issues of the msq.

[SturmChurro]

Or just level it to 60, or boost.

Already edited in a pre-reply for you. Here we go:

"I can't wait to play 90% of this games story as a class I didn't want to play, so I can play the class I want to play!"

"I love spending $60 on the game, $15 on a sub, $26 for a story skip, $26 for a level boost, so I can play dancer!"

Increased exp honestly made it worse for me personally, I leveled an alt with an FC mate during road to 60 and I got a to 60 before finishing the MSQ and was unable to learn skills because the job quests were gated behind the MSQ. The bonus exp just exacerbates the issues of the msq.

One of the points I was making about exp boost. If you need an exp boost to get through the content "quicker" there is a problem with the content. Simple as that.

[linay]

"I can't wait to play 90% of this games story as a class I didn't want to play, so I can play the class I want to play!"

You don't have to. You just have to play 2.0 content (and maybe level a class to appropriate level, don't remember if this is a requirement for Dancer and Gunbreaker). That's nowhere near 90% of the game's story, and the percentage will continue to decrease in the future.

"I love spending $60 on the game, $15 on a sub, $26 for a story skip, $26 for a level boost, so I can play dancer!"

Your purchase of the game should come with initial 30 day sub, I think. And that $25-$50 extra is not so you can play as Dancer, but so you can play as Dancer on day 1. Be thankful it's not like in WoW where you have to play current expansion story just to unlock a playable race, which you then have to pay to race change or level another character if you want some racial glam.

One of the points I was making about exp boost. If you need an exp boost to get through the content "quicker" there is a problem with the content. Simple as that.

How so?

[SturmChurro]

You don't have to. You just have to play 2.0 content (and maybe level a class to appropriate level, don't remember if this is a requirement for Dancer and Gunbreaker). That's nowhere near 90% of the game's story, and the percentage will continue to decrease in the future. Your purchase of the game should come with initial 30 day sub, I think. And that $25-$50 extra is not so you can play as Dancer, but so you can play as Dancer on day 1. Be thankful it's not like in WoW where you have to play current expansion story just to unlock a playable race, which you then have to pay to race change or level another character if you want some racial glam. How so?

OH! It comes with a one-month sub, so it's only $112 dollars! A totally reasonable price I'm sorry.

How so? Why do you need to speed through the content as fast as you can with exp boosts to out-level everything, if there is nothing wrong with the way the beginner experience? If there doesn't need to be a restructuring and trim, of the old starter content, why does a new player need a boost? I thought that ARR+ is why everyone played the game? You should sit down and enjoy it! New players shouldn't be rushing. As stated many, many times in this thread. I can go gather up the quotes if you want. I can gather up the quotes from others refuting your question for me.

Since, part of what FFXIV does well is that unlike other MMO's, it makes the JOURNEY important not just the destination.

Trust me, it's favourable if new players don't get to experience Eureka grinds because they're too busy playing through the pretty great MSQ content instead.

You may have encountered new players being overwhelmed and giving up, likewise others here (including me) have encountered new players happily getting sidetracked by everything the game has to offer on the way to max level instead of rushing through it.

Why any new players would want to skip and miss amazing stuff? I understand about playing with friends but they can play with you as you go through the game. I'll never understand that. When i played ffxiv for thr first time, i never thought about going to end game, i had fun and did all the stuff before. But because some want to go to end game right away, doesn't mean everyone think the same. It wasn't boring to me at all.

Am I only one, who actually enjoyed playing from level 1 to current point - exploring world, doing story content and all that completely new things?

Sure I started shortly before Heavensward dropped, but I didn't have any "gotta rush now" -feeling.

Has it ever occurred to you that what you are saying is not flying over our heads that we just do not agree with your solution? Seriously, you called us arrogant, but you can't even take a moment to see our reasoning. We get it. You want to streamline this game like in other mmos. We are saying that there improvements being made and streamlining like you want it is unnecessary. I'm not gonna accuse you of things flying over your head, but I am gonna say you got your fingers in your ears while your screaming 'lalalala I can't hear you!' in a self righteous manner.

If anything had not actually flew over your head you would see me say I would love to see a happy medium, with an actual reasonable participant of this thread here:

So if the quests are optional and don't unlock the dungeons (if this isn't what the OP etc are advocating for feel free to correct me), then I feel like "Why am I here?" - I had this problem with WoW. I would unlock a new dungeon... ok, so why am I here? Certain trials and dungeons however absolutely are mandatory to the main scenario such as:

Tsukuyomi: She is a major plot point through the Stormblood MSQ. Making her optional would stop the flow of the duty IMO, you need all the build up for that duty to make sense, else it's just another "Ok, so why am I fighting her?"

The thing is, the story giving definition to each dungeon, trial, and raid (sloppy writing aside, looking at you Omega... but even then, I still enjoyed the duties and felt they had a reason to exist even if they did feel a bit shoehorned in), is exactly why I love this game. Even though I do the grind, I still feel like I've got a reason for every duty I enter. It doesn't just feel like "oh, another dungeon". So yeah, for me, it's the depth I feel gets added from having a story behind each duty.

No, I would rather have a happy medium with and improved, streamlined new player experience. NOT a complete skip - so that new players can actually go back, and do the story, that gets so over hyped here (I have played through it, read, and never skipped any cutscenes except for in a duty). Having the starting experience restructured, and a new, informative, tutorial for players.

Now you see, I can agree with a more streamlined experience, so long as there's still the meaning behind each duty. Perhaps trimming the fat on some of the quests (e.g. the 2.1-2.55 shenanigans), for a more streamlined experience, but one that doesn't detract from the story (such as why we're going into each duty). That is a happy medium I can accept.

Yes, a reasonable response. I would rather see a streamlined experience so that new players coming in can come to enjoy the game we have, the way we do now. Think about this in a couple years time with another expansion, or longer maybe two, and they still only have story skip? Do you think it is a sustainable practice to have a player play through 4 expansions just to get to current, relevent content (level, new abilities, new jobs, new glamour, new mounts, play with friends, raids, trials)? Have them pay 60 dollars for the game plus current expansion, 15 for a sub, 25 for a skip, and maybe even a level boost?

For more veteran players a new streamlined new player experience literally wouldn't effect anyone, except those people who like to go back on an alt and slowly "enjoy" each and every story bit (selfish if you ask me). However, I think the streamlined experience should be included with a boost, and someone who chooses to play from the start should be able to. Clarification [EDIT]

[EDIT - POST LIMIT REPLY to below]

As I said in the other thread, I'm ok with restructuring the MSQ to make going through it faster, as long as the MSQ itself is still the MSQ, meaning not optional content.

I am at my post limit. I came into this thread thinking there was a problem with the new player experience, my thoughts have evolved, to ironically agree with you along these lines, and keep the main story experience in tact, all throughout NOT making the old content meaningless, but allow a restructuring of the way boosts/story skips work, to allow a boosted character to have a self contained tutorial. See:

I had gathered my thoughts and had a small debate with another (imaginary) friend of mine over Steam. If I would brainstorm ideas. I would think a streamlined ARR, "trimming the fat", making it more fun, and updating it. It is objectively archaic, but I'm sure some will still disagree with me on that point. New players or characters without a boost (or chose not to use) should start here like everyone else did. The boost should be free with an expansion in the future, and that experience should be streamlined and restructured. A brief overview of what has happened in the story (who the characters are, what has happened) - relevant to the plot at hand - over the course of a tutorial tailored to your specific role (DPS, Tank, Healer). At the end of the tutorial overview, you should be placed somewhere at the start of the most recent expansion or plot line leading to it, i.e. the start of any one story arch.

Players who choose to use a boost should be able to go back and do the story that they missed at their own leisure, to experience it personally, and to get full context of the situation. If they have boost regret, and choose a class they don't like that is on them, they should have to level a job from scratch like everyone else, or buy another boost. In short, a complete overhaul to the new player experience, boost or not. While continuing to have story player a large role. However, this is just a brainstorm, I am no game designer. All I know is the leveling experience right now is absolute crap, and needs to be restructured, overhauled; streamlined.

I would want the story to remain in tact with a a trimming of ARR content, while keeping the emphasis on story, but allowing a boosted character to also re-experience the old story at their own pace (if new game+ is structured well). See Star Trek Online.

[linay]

OH! It comes with a one-month sub, so it's only $112 dollars! A totally reasonable price I'm sorry.

Whether or not it's a reasonable price is up to you. $25 is about a 2-month sub fee. If you don't think that's reasonable to have the game auto-complete parts of the game for you, then you don't have to pay it and just play it manually, or don't play at all if you don't want to spend the effort, that's ok too.

How so? Why do you need to speed through the content as fast as you can with exp boosts to out-level everything, if there is nothing wrong with the way the beginner experience? If there doesn't need to be a restructuring and trim, of the old starter content, why does a new player need a boost? I thought that ARR+ is why everyone played the game? You should sit down and enjoy it! New players shouldn't be rushing. As stated many, many times in this thread. I can go gather up the quotes if you want. I can gather up the quotes from others refuting your question for me.

You don't need to do any of that. The option is there.

If anything had not actually flew over your head you would see me say I would love to see a happy medium, with an actual reasonable participant of this thread here:

As I said in the other thread, I'm ok with restructuring the MSQ to make going through it faster, as long as the MSQ itself is still the MSQ, meaning not optional content.

[Lissyl]

If I may throw my 2 cents in, not really taking a side so much as offering my own experience.

I am a relatively recent returner from all the way back at 2.0 launch. I missed HW and SB and although I've been back for a month, I'm only in my 20's in a combat class. I know it will be a huge long time until I get to play the expansion I already preordered and paid for. But I would be furious if someone tried to 'powerlevel' me through all the content to get to 'relevant' content, because in a world with so much stuff to do, it seems counterproductive. But admittedly, that's just me and the kind of people I know.

I only mention this because I wonder if your friend is actually aware of this possibility? Maybe they're just viewing it like WoW where nothing old is even worth doing anymore and where story/lore/side stuff is just click-and-forget with only the barest nod towards crafting? IOW, are you sure they actually want to powerlevel or what-have-you, or is that just their experience from other games talking?

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say, I'll wander off and be quiet again. =)

[Dyvid]

now, a new player buying shadowbringers because they like dancer and this warrior of darkness in a light world, would have to do like, 700 quests, thats a lot. Your new friend asks when he can play gunbreaker, and you tell him, you just have to do 700 quests to unlock it. Even if he did 10 quests a day, thats like 2 months.

I do wish SE would have made all the jobs available @ 30 for this reason, so I agree with you on that point.

Now everyone is saying this is a MMORPG but what does that even mean? MMO is basically a game you play with other people in an open environment. RPG is a game where you do some kind of story, mainly through quest. Both WoW and FFXIV check those boxes. Now I played WoW a little prior to and after BFA launch and guess what, I had to grind through main story quest to get to the end, gasp. Yes, i had boost that let me skip to the relative content on one character, but then had to grind through story on other jobs. The difference with FFXIV is, you only have to do the MSQ once with all jobs. ARR is the only really roadblock here because it does have a ton of MSQ. HW and SB will walk new players all the way to max level without much need for side quest. I still have tons of side quest in SB that Dancer and Gunblade will be doing.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the grass isn't greener on the WoW side of the house, if you think MSQ is bad trying unlock new races on WoW. I had to grind for a month just to get Void and Nightborne Elf. And of course you have to level that new race from level 1 wi6th no boost if you already used your free ones.

[Wynn_Storm]

Not the same game. If you think because you are good at wow you are good at ff14 that's a prob.

I'm good at both games.

I know, hard concept to understand. Being good at multiple games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



EDIT: And people keep using the excuse of MSQ teaches players how to do mechanics.

Obviously the MSQ doesn't do that, because people at 70 don't understand what basic markers mean.

So the argument that MSQ teaches new players is complete BS.

[Anselmet]

EDIT: And people keep using the excuse of MSQ teaches players how to do mechanics.

Obviously the MSQ doesn't do that, because people at 70 don't understand what basic markers mean.

So the argument that MSQ teaches new players is complete BS.

Oh, I wasn't aware that most mechanics aren't introduced during msq dungeons- oh wait.