New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[SturmChurro]

your concept of hard and takes forever is very different than others. If you got your friend to buy shadow bringers by showing them dancer, then told them it will only take two months before they can play that class, what do you think they would say?

"I can't wait to level my mnk to 70 so I can unlock dancer and level dancer to 70!"

"I can't wait to play 90% of this games story as a class I didn't want to play, so I can play the class I want to play!"

"I love spending $60 on the game, $15 on a sub, $26 for a story skip, $26 for a level boost, so I can play dancer!"

[linay]

"I can't wait to level my mnk to 70 so I can unlock dancer and level dancer to 70!"

Or just level it to 60, or boost.

[SturmChurro]

Or just level it to 60, or boost.

Already edited in a pre-reply for you. Here we go:

"I can't wait to play 90% of this games story as a class I didn't want to play, so I can play the class I want to play!"

"I love spending $60 on the game, $15 on a sub, $26 for a story skip, $26 for a level boost, so I can play dancer!"

Increased exp honestly made it worse for me personally, I leveled an alt with an FC mate during road to 60 and I got a to 60 before finishing the MSQ and was unable to learn skills because the job quests were gated behind the MSQ. The bonus exp just exacerbates the issues of the msq.

One of the points I was making about exp boost. If you need an exp boost to get through the content "quicker" there is a problem with the content. Simple as that.

[linay]

"I can't wait to play 90% of this games story as a class I didn't want to play, so I can play the class I want to play!"

You don't have to. You just have to play 2.0 content (and maybe level a class to appropriate level, don't remember if this is a requirement for Dancer and Gunbreaker). That's nowhere near 90% of the game's story, and the percentage will continue to decrease in the future.

"I love spending $60 on the game, $15 on a sub, $26 for a story skip, $26 for a level boost, so I can play dancer!"

Your purchase of the game should come with initial 30 day sub, I think. And that $25-$50 extra is not so you can play as Dancer, but so you can play as Dancer on day 1. Be thankful it's not like in WoW where you have to play current expansion story just to unlock a playable race, which you then have to pay to race change or level another character if you want some racial glam.

One of the points I was making about exp boost. If you need an exp boost to get through the content "quicker" there is a problem with the content. Simple as that.

How so?

[SturmChurro]

You don't have to. You just have to play 2.0 content (and maybe level a class to appropriate level, don't remember if this is a requirement for Dancer and Gunbreaker). That's nowhere near 90% of the game's story, and the percentage will continue to decrease in the future. Your purchase of the game should come with initial 30 day sub, I think. And that $25-$50 extra is not so you can play as Dancer, but so you can play as Dancer on day 1. Be thankful it's not like in WoW where you have to play current expansion story just to unlock a playable race, which you then have to pay to race change or level another character if you want some racial glam. How so?

OH! It comes with a one-month sub, so it's only $112 dollars! A totally reasonable price I'm sorry.

How so? Why do you need to speed through the content as fast as you can with exp boosts to out-level everything, if there is nothing wrong with the way the beginner experience? If there doesn't need to be a restructuring and trim, of the old starter content, why does a new player need a boost? I thought that ARR+ is why everyone played the game? You should sit down and enjoy it! New players shouldn't be rushing. As stated many, many times in this thread. I can go gather up the quotes if you want. I can gather up the quotes from others refuting your question for me.

Since, part of what FFXIV does well is that unlike other MMO's, it makes the JOURNEY important not just the destination.

Trust me, it's favourable if new players don't get to experience Eureka grinds because they're too busy playing through the pretty great MSQ content instead.

You may have encountered new players being overwhelmed and giving up, likewise others here (including me) have encountered new players happily getting sidetracked by everything the game has to offer on the way to max level instead of rushing through it.

Why any new players would want to skip and miss amazing stuff? I understand about playing with friends but they can play with you as you go through the game. I'll never understand that. When i played ffxiv for thr first time, i never thought about going to end game, i had fun and did all the stuff before. But because some want to go to end game right away, doesn't mean everyone think the same. It wasn't boring to me at all.

Am I only one, who actually enjoyed playing from level 1 to current point - exploring world, doing story content and all that completely new things?

Sure I started shortly before Heavensward dropped, but I didn't have any "gotta rush now" -feeling.

Has it ever occurred to you that what you are saying is not flying over our heads that we just do not agree with your solution? Seriously, you called us arrogant, but you can't even take a moment to see our reasoning. We get it. You want to streamline this game like in other mmos. We are saying that there improvements being made and streamlining like you want it is unnecessary. I'm not gonna accuse you of things flying over your head, but I am gonna say you got your fingers in your ears while your screaming 'lalalala I can't hear you!' in a self righteous manner.

If anything had not actually flew over your head you would see me say I would love to see a happy medium, with an actual reasonable participant of this thread here:

So if the quests are optional and don't unlock the dungeons (if this isn't what the OP etc are advocating for feel free to correct me), then I feel like "Why am I here?" - I had this problem with WoW. I would unlock a new dungeon... ok, so why am I here? Certain trials and dungeons however absolutely are mandatory to the main scenario such as:

Tsukuyomi: She is a major plot point through the Stormblood MSQ. Making her optional would stop the flow of the duty IMO, you need all the build up for that duty to make sense, else it's just another "Ok, so why am I fighting her?"

The thing is, the story giving definition to each dungeon, trial, and raid (sloppy writing aside, looking at you Omega... but even then, I still enjoyed the duties and felt they had a reason to exist even if they did feel a bit shoehorned in), is exactly why I love this game. Even though I do the grind, I still feel like I've got a reason for every duty I enter. It doesn't just feel like "oh, another dungeon". So yeah, for me, it's the depth I feel gets added from having a story behind each duty.

No, I would rather have a happy medium with and improved, streamlined new player experience. NOT a complete skip - so that new players can actually go back, and do the story, that gets so over hyped here (I have played through it, read, and never skipped any cutscenes except for in a duty). Having the starting experience restructured, and a new, informative, tutorial for players.

Now you see, I can agree with a more streamlined experience, so long as there's still the meaning behind each duty. Perhaps trimming the fat on some of the quests (e.g. the 2.1-2.55 shenanigans), for a more streamlined experience, but one that doesn't detract from the story (such as why we're going into each duty). That is a happy medium I can accept.

Yes, a reasonable response. I would rather see a streamlined experience so that new players coming in can come to enjoy the game we have, the way we do now. Think about this in a couple years time with another expansion, or longer maybe two, and they still only have story skip? Do you think it is a sustainable practice to have a player play through 4 expansions just to get to current, relevent content (level, new abilities, new jobs, new glamour, new mounts, play with friends, raids, trials)? Have them pay 60 dollars for the game plus current expansion, 15 for a sub, 25 for a skip, and maybe even a level boost?

For more veteran players a new streamlined new player experience literally wouldn't effect anyone, except those people who like to go back on an alt and slowly "enjoy" each and every story bit (selfish if you ask me). However, I think the streamlined experience should be included with a boost, and someone who chooses to play from the start should be able to. Clarification [EDIT]

[EDIT - POST LIMIT REPLY to below]

As I said in the other thread, I'm ok with restructuring the MSQ to make going through it faster, as long as the MSQ itself is still the MSQ, meaning not optional content.

I am at my post limit. I came into this thread thinking there was a problem with the new player experience, my thoughts have evolved, to ironically agree with you along these lines, and keep the main story experience in tact, all throughout NOT making the old content meaningless, but allow a restructuring of the way boosts/story skips work, to allow a boosted character to have a self contained tutorial. See:

I had gathered my thoughts and had a small debate with another (imaginary) friend of mine over Steam. If I would brainstorm ideas. I would think a streamlined ARR, "trimming the fat", making it more fun, and updating it. It is objectively archaic, but I'm sure some will still disagree with me on that point. New players or characters without a boost (or chose not to use) should start here like everyone else did. The boost should be free with an expansion in the future, and that experience should be streamlined and restructured. A brief overview of what has happened in the story (who the characters are, what has happened) - relevant to the plot at hand - over the course of a tutorial tailored to your specific role (DPS, Tank, Healer). At the end of the tutorial overview, you should be placed somewhere at the start of the most recent expansion or plot line leading to it, i.e. the start of any one story arch.

Players who choose to use a boost should be able to go back and do the story that they missed at their own leisure, to experience it personally, and to get full context of the situation. If they have boost regret, and choose a class they don't like that is on them, they should have to level a job from scratch like everyone else, or buy another boost. In short, a complete overhaul to the new player experience, boost or not. While continuing to have story player a large role. However, this is just a brainstorm, I am no game designer. All I know is the leveling experience right now is absolute crap, and needs to be restructured, overhauled; streamlined.

I would want the story to remain in tact with a a trimming of ARR content, while keeping the emphasis on story, but allowing a boosted character to also re-experience the old story at their own pace (if new game+ is structured well). See Star Trek Online.

[linay]

OH! It comes with a one-month sub, so it's only $112 dollars! A totally reasonable price I'm sorry.

Whether or not it's a reasonable price is up to you. $25 is about a 2-month sub fee. If you don't think that's reasonable to have the game auto-complete parts of the game for you, then you don't have to pay it and just play it manually, or don't play at all if you don't want to spend the effort, that's ok too.

How so? Why do you need to speed through the content as fast as you can with exp boosts to out-level everything, if there is nothing wrong with the way the beginner experience? If there doesn't need to be a restructuring and trim, of the old starter content, why does a new player need a boost? I thought that ARR+ is why everyone played the game? You should sit down and enjoy it! New players shouldn't be rushing. As stated many, many times in this thread. I can go gather up the quotes if you want. I can gather up the quotes from others refuting your question for me.

You don't need to do any of that. The option is there.

If anything had not actually flew over your head you would see me say I would love to see a happy medium, with an actual reasonable participant of this thread here:

As I said in the other thread, I'm ok with restructuring the MSQ to make going through it faster, as long as the MSQ itself is still the MSQ, meaning not optional content.

[Jojoya]

One of the points I was making about exp boost. If you need an exp boost to get through the content "quicker" there is a problem with the content. Simple as that.

No, that isn't a problem with the content. That's a problem with the player for wanting to rush through content. Simple as that.

If there wasn't enough content to gain the XP to level up without resorting to a straight up mob grind, then you might have an argument. Fortunately, that's not the case. There's plenty of content in this game that will reward XP and can be done alongside the MSQ, leveling roulette being a good example.

Your issue is you've chosen the wrong game to play. What you need to do is find a game that's already designed the way you want it to be instead of asking for changes to a game that others like but you don't. I hear Blizzard is trying to attract more players to WoW. Try there.

Oh, I wasn't aware that most mechanics aren't introduced during msq dungeons- oh wait.

To be honest, many mechanics aren't introduced during MSQ dungeons. They are introduced in the level 50/60 side content then repeated in the subsequent expansion's MSQ dungeons. Someone who is plowing straight through MSQ without stopping to do raids and EX trials are going to be at a loss on some of them despite people telling them they should already know those mechanics by now.

[Anselmet]

No, that isn't a problem with the content. That's a problem with the player for wanting to rush through content. Simple as that.

If there wasn't enough content to gain the XP to level up without resorting to a straight up mob grind, then you might have an argument. Fortunately, that's not the case. There's plenty of content in this game that will reward XP and can be done alongside the MSQ, leveling roulette being a good example.

Your issue is you've chosen the wrong game to play. What you need to do is find a game that's already designed the way you want it to be instead of asking for changes to a game that others like but you don't. I hear Blizzard is trying to attract more players to WoW. Try there.


To be honest, many mechanics aren't introduced during MSQ dungeons. They are introduced in the level 50/60 side content then repeated in the subsequent expansion's MSQ dungeons. Someone who is plowing straight through MSQ without stopping to do raids and EX trials are going to be at a loss on some of them despite people telling them they should already know those mechanics by now.

I am not claiming that all mechanics originate in the msq. If the mech is brought in on a side dungeon and are repeated in the next expansions msq then clearly the mechanics are being used in the msq. The person's claim is that the msq does nothing to teach people mechanics which is straight manure. Most mechanics are being introduced in the msq that does not mean that it is their debut in the game. My point is that newbies go through dungeons that throw array of mechs at them to the point that they more or less have seen most mechanics (at least on the casual side) once they hit the end of the msq in sb. That does not mean they are experts, it means that they have experienced and started the learning process. That person is claiming otherwise in a lame attempt to demolish the importance of the msq.

[Wynn_Storm]

I am not claiming that all mechanics originate in the msq. If the mech is brought in on a side dungeon and are repeated in the next expansions msq then clearly the mechanics are being used in the msq. The person's claim is that the msq does nothing to teach people mechanics which is straight manure. Most mechanics are being introduced in the msq that does not mean that it is their debut in the game. My point is that newbies go through dungeons that throw array of mechs at them to the point that they more or less have seen most mechanics (at least on the casual side) once they hit the end of the msq in sb. That does not mean they are experts, it means that they have experienced and started the learning process. That person is claiming otherwise in a lame attempt to demolish the importance of the msq.

Lame attempt? Sorry that what i said hurt your little feelings, but its true what i say.

MSQ does not teach you basic mechanics. It doesn't. You can go ahead and keep on thinking it does, but it doesn't.

You learn via high end dungeon content/trials/raids. That is the reason that people at 70 don't know how to do mechanics.

What they SHOULD do, is update the novice training hall to include a tutorial about all the different types of markers for mechanics. Such as the stack or spread.


Honestly though, you post is full of nothing but air, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Anselmet]

MSQ does not teach you basic mechanics.

You learn via high end dungeon content/trials/raids. That is the reason that people at 70 don't know how to do mechanics.

Let me great this straight. New people have to run around 20 different dungeons where they show off different mechanics and new people just drool brain dead and never catch on? Do you hear yourself? Like if being able to do high end content is your standard of knowing mechanics then your argument is even more poor. Does doing high end content make you a better player and teach you to be more weary of mechanics. Yes. But you are being disingenuous if you think that people don't start learning before doing high end content.

Hurt feelings? No. Just poking holes in your argument likes its swiss cheese. But okay new players can't know mechs until they clear some high end content because that totally makes sense. ((most people don't do high end content, most of the game isn't on fire due to this... but okay, okay you clearly are a logical person full of wisdom))