New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Niqote]

Honestly, it sounds like you are the one with the problem and perhaps not the new player OP.
Are you trying to pressure and hurry them and tell them content they are up to is useless? I've seen people do that and it really demoralizes new players and helps burn them out. Let them play!

This is a Final Fantasy game. It traditionally takes a long time, has lots of side objectives and has tonnes of tiny lore elements you can either notice, or just ignore... but don't complain about it when you choose to ignore them.

[van_arn]

Snip

You're ignoring the core of their point: even if it's a Final Fantasy, it's a social game. The MSQ is automatically diminished in importance simply because other people are there to play with you. There is no justification for requiring a new player to do this much non-gameplay busywork just to play with their friends. And no, teleporting repeatedly for 150+ hours doesn't deserve to be called "gameplay" when so much better is out there.

Don't get me wrong, I do like to watch the cutscenes on my own time, in my estate, when I'm looking for something slower paced. But when I want to run the new dungeon, they tedious teleporting gets in the way.

That's just how I play the game, though, and that's fine. I have no interest in getting rid of cutscenes for current content, even if I need to do boring busywork to actually get to the game. I limit this to the current content, though, because what happened in Heavensward no longer matters to me. I have no idea why we went to arborium hard, for example, nor do I care in the slightest. I love pooman, though.

The core issue that will only get worse as expansions release is a social reason, though: we currently have players spread across going on six years of content, much of it badly out of date and a poor example of what the SE team can create. Too many are stuck back in Heavensward, "taking their time" for going on four years now, playing an entirely different game than what is being announced at fanfest or on live letters. This can't keep happening for the team if they're going to keep these players engaged, and these players -- perhaps unwittingly -- are sabotaging their own play by locking themselves out of the content everyone else gets excited for during the live letters or fanfests.

So yeah, skip everyone to book 3 so everyone has a nice baseline of content to enjoy that doesn't insult their intelligence with one button hotbars.

Those that want additional context, or need remedial tooltip-reading can use new game+.

Before you tell me this is what Final Fantasy isn't again, you're already been skipped to book 2. The difference is we didn't have new game+ when everyone was forced to leave 1.0 and start playing ARR instead.

Simply change the starting point on the timeline again so new players start further along and new players won't be required to suffer to play with their friends in today's ffxiv. Should those players want to experience the timeline in sequence, permit ng+.

The existence of skip potions doesn't mean Square can just let content rot, and I'm never going to look positively at Square making money off of their abysmal expansion onboarding. The fact that square seems utterly incapable of editing loathed portions of the msq out tells me they aren't really able to condense the current story, perhaps for technical reasons rather than any sort of malice or greed.

Changing the starting book is the most reasonable option available at present; especially since we know ng+ is already on the way.

[Fawkes]

It's true that there's too much filler, but to add a paid skip is not a good solution. It does nothing for people who want to just skip the filler, it only benefits people who don't care about getting any of the story. Also it gives SE no reason to go back and fix the filler ever, because they can make money off it being bad, so it will always be bad for new players who care about the story. And it incentivizes SE to make future story have the same filler, because then they can make money selling a Stormblood story skip in a few years.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

I am currently helping a friend who is new to the game go through the story and catch up to us, but instead of trying to rush him through, I'm trying to let him experience the game and story at his own pace. He enjoys going through the game and the intrigue of the story, and every time he does things outside of instanced content me and another friend are there to be right next to him and help with advice or queuing up as tank and heals in dungeons or trials. Funnily enough, his biggest complaint is that he's leveling too fast causing him to skip side quests which would only make him level faster and turning some parts of the ARR storyline into "go check out this new area and then come back." He's just started to hit the patch quests though, and we're taking a quick break since he's currently in Greece, I have confidence that he'll probably be properly caught up by 5.1, which is when end game will start to get good anyway.

When it comes to skipping, and level skipping in particular, I am finding players who constantly don't know how to play their class in the slightest and have trouble learning mechanics because there's no foundation to build upon. It's sad when I can spot them by their level of play before confirming it by looking at their gear. It's to the point where I'm hoping the game forces new account level skip players to go through a tutorial in the Hall of the Novice in order to actually ready them for content at their level (aka if the level skipped class is your highest class). I understand that some players don't want to be forced to enjoy years worth of content and level/story skip potions help them get to content they want to play, but I also think that the old content in it's entirety shouldn't need to be compressed for free just to fit the loud vocal minority.

[Bracken]

3 weeks, is all they need. I just rebooted my partners account which was bought a few years back to join me. It was never used. Past the initial log in, (he didn't get into the game) and while waiting on shadowbringers I thought I'd see how long it would take to get from 0 to hero. It took me 3 weeks of casual play getting from level 1 to 70 all MSQ done and 5 days of Rathalos hunting to get the mount. 3 weeks basically to get that account sub par to my main. Now it has 2 level 70's.

Your friend has you to help of what to do and where to go and a whole slew of Internet information at their fingertips.

If they're crying about this, maybe this game is not for them ( just like it wasn't for my husband). They've given you a free pass option and there is no real rush to catch up without learning mechanics ( how many of us recently have seen people run away with the stack target because they don't know what it is in recent times).

[Anselmet]

Snip

No offense, but exaggerating how long it takes to go through the msq really is not a good defense. I have leveled many characters from start to finish on this game. I have helped many friends who are entirely new go through this game at different points in time such as the release of hw or sb. It does not take 4 years and a ham sandwich to play through all three expansions and it never did. Just playing casually on weekends I have had friends make it all the way from level 1 to 70 and get geared in two to three weeks. Just because some people don't leave hw or arr does not mean this is normal. Could the msq be handled better, sure! But you want just current msq to be relevant but then the rest just optional no matter what? Ho boy! So let's drop an newbie into that and see how that goes. Because news flash, most newbies skip important things like potd, optional extra dungeons to help get them levels etc etc and now you wanna drop them in where we're trying to save two nations with a cast of people that we have used several expansions to get to know and care about? Suddenly new players are walled behind msq when they weren't before and they have to mandatorily play through story they don't care about bc they didn't have to/didn't do the previous msq? Ya that's gonna go well. All bc people can't handle the already buffed exp and quick leveling system we have now.

I'm sorry but if it is taking you years to get through arr/hw then most likely you aren't going to be the sort that is gonna be sticking around to enjoy sb once you get to the end. Don't get me wrong, I think there are plenty of things that can be improved with lvling in this game. Things such as having classes feeling complete by lvl 50 would be a start and not having to wait until lvl 60 or eventually lvl 70 once shb comes out would be nice. But once again, this game is a story DRIVEN mmo coming from a franchise known for its story driven content. There is another side to things other than consumer convenience and just because other mmos do something a certain way does not mean that ffxiv model has to follow. Or hell, even if it would be good for it. And clearly with devs releasing new game plus they are 1. thinking of a way to help people speed through the msq while keeping it in place and 2. believe that the final fantasy branding is important and that goes hand in hand with long, story driven content.

Now I am going to bed, good night.

[Physic]

So don't think about catching up. Think about playing the game. Being "caught up" just means you have run out of game to play.

not if you can go back and play it at your liesure. To be clear i obviously already have done msq. But every time a friend comes back, or a new friend joins, or i am in vchat with some other friend, there has always been complaints about having to do msq before they can do X. And the more expansions there are, the more things they cant do until they do X amount of msq, and the more time it requires.

[Physic]

I am currently helping a friend who is new to the game go through the story and catch up to us, but instead of trying to rush him through, I'm trying to let him experience the game and story at his own pace. He enjoys going through the game and the intrigue of the story, and every time he does things outside of instanced content me and another friend are there to be right next to him and help with advice or queuing up as tank and heals in dungeons or trials. Funnily enough, his biggest complaint is that he's leveling too fast causing him to skip side quests which would only make him level faster and turning some parts of the ARR storyline into "go check out this new area and then come back." He's just started to hit the patch quests though, and we're taking a quick break since he's currently in Greece, I have confidence that he'll probably be properly caught up by 5.1, which is when end game will start to get good anyway.

When it comes to skipping, and level skipping in particular, I am finding players who constantly don't know how to play their class in the slightest and have trouble learning mechanics because there's no foundation to build upon. It's sad when I can spot them by their level of play before confirming it by looking at their gear. It's to the point where I'm hoping the game forces new account level skip players to go through a tutorial in the Hall of the Novice in order to actually ready them for content at their level (aka if the level skipped class is your highest class). I understand that some players don't want to be forced to enjoy years worth of content and level/story skip potions help them get to content they want to play, but I also think that the old content in it's entirety shouldn't need to be compressed for free just to fit the loud vocal minority.

people have been bad even before skip potions, some players are just not that good. And its great when a new player loves msq, and doesnt care about whatever content you(friend) are doing. But a lot of players get annoyed not being able to play with friends, and basically skip everything, cutscenes, spam cancel on text bubbles, etc, why force those types to do something they have no interest in? What exactly does the game get by making them teleport and skip?

[The_Last_Dragoon]

snip

I'm not against people being able to buy a skip potion, but there should be a tutorial that the player must pass before they are put into duties with other players who have hours of experience and expect their teammates to have basic knowledge about the game. As it is right now, a player can literally buy a skip potion, skip the introduction and queue into a duty (the highest level dungeon unlocked for HW skip potion players is Baelsar's Wall). It wouldn't have to be too terribly difficult of a tutorial, but at least one describing what some of the more common boss markers are as well as the requirement of the player passing "Stone, Sky, Sea: Basic Training" would at the very least better prepare players on how to play their class.

[Ssmiley_Bjakkzz]

out of the subject, just wanna ask, how did you make that info presentation or what to call this you guys put under your every thread comment it stays there, i like it and want for myself