Housing Suggestions/Fixes Timers/Supply

[Shougun]

No players still end up paying others to get a better plot instead of their first plot. Literally nothing has changed...

Not sure I see what you're seeing. The change is players don't have to sit at the sign anymore, if a plot opens up they are put in the same priority as relocation players (and it's random).

If a player pays another player for a plot they're paying for the chance that they win the lottery, I'm sure they'll have fun with that lol. Issues still with FC selling but to fix that I think is going to be a bit more difficult without some other major changes (also FC if wanting to relocate would have to follow the lottery system too).

Lottery system will turn itself off for specific instances if a threshold crossed in supply of that specific type of house (like if you want a goblet house and there are 30 open smalls in the zone already).

The problem doesn't lie with the supply considering we went from less than 1000 houses to nearly 4500. The problem(s) lies in the fact that Square Enix has reduced and consolidated prices while letting players have their own personal houses. Gilgamesh had over a thousand empty plots by the time the moratorium of early 4.1 was over so I can't think of how empty small pop servers looked like even after those two weeks had passed.

No it has to do with supply. There are a lot of different ways to go about it, but to keep the example straight forward if every plot had unlimited slots of itself (so if you wanted space Y in area X you could have it) then all these issues would be dead. The core root issue is supply, fix supply all these other issues die. Of course if you fix supply sloppeh you might make some new problems but yeah lol. Part of the supply in my comment is including not just supply # of houses but also considers things like supply location and supply size (because for example goblet is undesired).

The only reason these things get sold as they do, and people want ways to stop it (like the timers) is because there is a supply issue. If there wasn't a supply issue then there wouldn't be a market to sell houses (which we currently have).

By the way, sorry to burst your bubble, but GMs do not care about 1 on 1 transactions unless someone gets scammed. If that does happen, you better hope to have that mutual agreement somewhere in the chat or they won't help you at all.

I feel like you're upset or something, the whole thing doesn't read very nice. Clearly I was suggesting (mostly in jest) that GMs read the reddit where people sell houses and punish players for selling houses (you can get in trouble for selling houses, depending on how you do it at least lol).

[Penthea]

Do I have to pull the ignorant claims you have made about housing before? Do I have to remind others that you couldn't handle facts and had to resort to blocking me?

Ah I thought it was you. Welcome to my blocklist again! Life was so much better when your posts were filtered out. I suppose you have resorted to posting on another account because many others feel the same way about you as I do.

It's absolutely ridiculous that just because this person owns multiple houses, their points are disregarded when they literally speak the exact state of the game everytime.

But I guess haters are gonna hate right?

That player has a strong distaste for the system being changed because they currently benefit from it. The fact that they think supply isn't a problem is laughably ridiculous. Even if the player population was evenly spread across all the servers there still wouldn't be enough houses. And part of that is because of players who do things like own half a ward. Not that there could ever be an even spread anyway given that for language reasons NA or european players would be unlikely to play on japanese servers and vice versa, or how there can be latency issues if your location is too far from certain data centres.

The ward system is unsustainable. Players who hoard several houses too easily impact the housing experience for other players, and the more popular the game gets the worse the housing system feels. We need instanced housing. Having limited plots means having a stunted experience.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Thought you would have noticed by now, but you really sound upset. What have you done for this server anyway?

What have I done for the server? What have YOU done for the server besides piss people off? Dont come here trying to act like youre high and mighty and that youve done something special.
And so what you own 0.6%. You are still part of the problem. You pointing fingers at other things just make you look like a child.
Ill say again. Stop pretending you care. Because if you did youd give those plots to people who would actually use them. Not hold those plots hostage and stick bushes in front of them all with a sign that says "go to plot ?? for more details". Ive been there. Ive seen them.

[Yshtola]

Not sure I see what you're seeing. The change is players don't have to sit at the sign anymore, if a plot opens up they are put in the same priority as relocation players (and it's random).

If a player pays another player for a plot they're paying for the chance that they win the lottery, I'm sure they'll have fun with that lol. Issues still with FC selling but to fix that I think is going to be a bit more difficult without some other major changes (also FC if wanting to relocate would have to follow the lottery system too).

Lottery system will turn itself off for specific instances if a threshold crossed in supply of that specific type of house (like if you want a goblet house and there are 30 open smalls in the zone already).

Relocation bypasses the purchase timer. As stated, nothing's changed in the trading of houses other than making it really obnoxious for players to acquire their first house.

No it has to do with supply. There are a lot of different ways to go about it, but to keep the example straight forward if every plot had unlimited slots of itself (so if you wanted space Y in area X you could have it) then all these issues would be dead. The core root issue is supply, fix supply all these other issues die. Of course if you fix supply sloppeh you might make some new problems but yeah lol. Part of the supply in my comment is including not just supply # of houses but also considers things like supply location and supply size (because for example goblet is undesired).

The only reason these things get sold as they do, and people want ways to stop it (like the timers) is because there is a supply issue. If there wasn't a supply issue then there wouldn't be a market to sell houses (which we currently have).

Yeah let's just disregard how bringing small plots from 25m-10m on populated servers to 3m is clearly not contributing to the player base's entitlement on top of allowing every player that has completed ARR to purchase a house (ARR gives you over a million). Let's just talk about some hypothetical scenario instead...

We started with 450 and now we're at nearly 10 times that amount of available plots. This is absolutely not a question of supply. It is quite naive to think that housing only has a market because of the purchase timer because:

1: Some players want to acquire an FC attached with a house without having to level up an FC.
2: Players have preferences regarding their ideal house location.
3: FCs can manage to not lose money by directly selling their house and workshop recipes, airships and submersibles to other players.
4: Players want to cover the cost of their house when they tranfer off

If you want to fix this problem without any effort, bring the prices back to what they were, reintroduce server segregation regarding plot pricing an let the demolition timer do its job (even though it should be much shorter than 45 days).

I feel like you're upset or something, the whole thing doesn't read very nice. Clearly I was suggesting (mostly in jest) that GMs read the reddit where people sell houses and punish players for selling houses (you can get in trouble for selling houses, depending on how you do it at least lol).

Go read post #4, #12 and #13 if you want to see upset players.

Ah I thought it was you. Welcome to my blocklist again! Life was so much better when your posts were filtered out. I suppose you have resorted to posting on another account because many others feel the same way about you as I do.

Glad to see you still cannot handle facts <3

That player has a strong distaste for the system being changed because they currently benefit from it. The fact that they think supply isn't a problem is laughably ridiculous. Even if the player population was evenly spread across all the servers there still wouldn't be enough houses. And part of that is because of players who do things like own half a ward. Not that there could ever be an even spread anyway given that for language reasons NA or european players would be unlikely to play on japanese servers and vice versa, or how there can be latency issues if your location is too far from certain data centres.

The ward system is unsustainable. Players who hoard several houses too easily impact the housing experience for other players, and the more popular the game gets the worse the housing system feels. We need instanced housing. Having limited plots means having a stunted experience.

Here we go again...

Please find me a single person that is satisfied with the current system? Literally everyone dislikes what Square Enix has done because of people like yourself who complained about a much better system. The amount of players such as myself is so microscopically small that players who take advantage of the lengthy demolition timer are in effect doing more harm than we are. I'd love to hear your opinion on how frequently players use automation in order to acquire their first house, but alas, you're just not that kind of person.

What have I done for the server? What have YOU done for the server besides piss people off? Dont come here trying to act like youre high and mighty and that youve done something special.
And so what you own 0.6%. You are still part of the problem. You pointing fingers at other things just make you look like a child.
Ill say again. Stop pretending you care. Because if you did youd give those plots to people who would actually use them. Not hold those plots hostage and stick bushes in front of them all with a sign that says "go to plot ?? for more details". Ive been there. Ive seen them.

How surprising, you have not answered my question. Because I'm polite, I will gladly answer yours.

I've given FC houses (with bonuses) before. One of the original owners is still on the server and we can expand on that later if you want, but your attitude leads me to believe you won't.

I've given millions to players who lost against other players who use automation.
I've blocked players who use automation from purchasing houses.
I've given millions to players that were camping plots I ultimately bought.
I've given millions to new players when Gilgamesh was on lockdown for over a year because server retention was important at that time. We can also talk about that if you want since I've posted about it on here.

Obviously, nothing special right? Every players just donates gil or houses like I do. Considering you did not answer my question and preferred to throw it back at me (totally not childish), I'm going to safely assume you haven't done anything for complete strangers.

Anyway, you've stated in a now deleted thread that I wasn't doing anything with those houses. Because you clearly know so much about me, can you explain what I don't exactly do with those houses?

[Shougun]

Relocation bypasses the purchase timer. As stated, nothing's changed in the trading of houses other than making it really obnoxious for players to acquire their first house.

Except I said that relocating would put you in the lottery too, so I've covered that issue. You cannot trade houses anymore. Relocation of any sort, or buying a house for the first time, will now put you into a lottery so that everyone is on equal grounds. House selling is much harder now (Shell FC that owned a house previously can do it still to some extent).

Optimally no system is needed though because everyone has a house.

Yeah let's just disregard how bringing small plots from 25m-10m on populated servers to 3m is clearly not contributing to the player base's entitlement on top of allowing every player that has completed ARR to purchase a house (ARR gives you over a million).

You describe a supply(/demand) issue, I suggest we fix that by making a larger supply (to the level that every single person and FC with a desire to be in on the system can be in on it). Your suggestion is to fix supply by lowering demand (making them more expensive so less people want them). Both address a supply issue - yes, but only one of them gives people content that they wanted to take part in. Perhaps short term we could use your solution, but I don't think it's good for the game long term and will cause a bit of a kerfuffle (so if the solution happened without news of a fix to come later, pretty sure it'd just make people upset lol).

The end solution will always be to increase supply (if one is interested giving people content at least). Besides this isn't some hardcore Mortal Online mmo this is a theme park, so it would fit the theme best if every single person and FC that wanted a house could get one. In fact I'd argue the best solution would be to give every single person (and FC) a small plot of land by default (it just happens) and then add significant amounts of build up in that (such that it can be a large gil sink but the barrier to entry is near nil).

Getting people in on the experience and encouraging them to make a home I believe would be better for the game and the system itself (as there is justification to improve housing more then). Beyond that when you wet more toes more people might be willing to go into the deep end (improving markets related to housing both in game and cash shop). Also not threatening to remove (demolition) it if they don't show up in a while would be a nice encouragement to them being interested in it lol (but that system has to be as it is until supply is fixed).

Going back to that everyone starts with a free mog room experience. I strongly believe that housing is a brilliant idea for mmos, a home within your home away from home, and an MMO should prioritize creating that experience for players earlier than later (at least one that isn't hardcore and does things like drop loot on death / real world space no instances).

So in other words while your solution is lower effort absolutely I don't think it solves the issue in the best way. Getting everyone a home would be better, imo (but obviously more challenging task for SE to figure out- although we know it can be done in a general sense as we've seen other games do it).

[IkaraGreydancer]

Relocation bypasses the purchase timer. As stated, nothing's changed in the trading of houses other than making it really obnoxious for players to acquire their first house.

How surprising, you have not answered my question. Because I'm polite, I will gladly answer yours.

I've given FC houses (with bonuses) before. One of the original owners is still on the server and we can expand on that later if you want, but your attitude leads me to believe you won't.

I've given millions to players who lost against other players who use automation.
I've blocked players who use automation from purchasing houses.
I've given millions to players that were camping plots I ultimately bought.
I've given millions to new players when Gilgamesh was on lockdown for over a year because server retention was important at that time. We can also talk about that if you want since I've posted about it on here.

Obviously, nothing special right? Every players just donates gil or houses like I do. Considering you did not answer my question and preferred to throw it back at me (totally not childish), I'm going to safely assume you haven't done anything for complete strangers.

Anyway, you've stated in a now deleted thread that I wasn't doing anything with those houses. Because you clearly know so much about me, can you explain what I don't exactly do with those houses?

Polite....riiiiight. Id like proof of all of these so called things youve done. If I dont see proof its considered a lie in my book. If they are true congratz youve won a medal.
Have I done anything for Gilga as a whole? No. Ive given newbies donations. Thats about it. Do I have proof? No I dont. (You have no reason to believe me either)
I literally just said what you do with those houses. Nothing. (Last I heard you were trying to sell them off at a premium). Why ask a stupid question. If there is a reason theyre all blocked off then please enlighten us. (And news flash, you arent special so drop the condescending attitude)

[Yshtola]

Except I said that relocating would put you in the lottery too, so I've covered that issue. You cannot trade houses anymore. Relocation of any sort, or buying a house for the first time, will now put you into a lottery so that everyone is on equal grounds. House selling is much harder now (Shell FC that owned a house previously can do it still to some extent).

Optimally no system is needed though because everyone has a house.

I'm confused, are you talking about your suggestion or what we are working with right now regarding relocation? And how is house trading much harder now since players are forced to fight each other for very mediocre plots just to purchase off someone to relocate to their spot. In the end, you end up with a vacant plot getting picked up and the process starts all over again.

You describe a supply(/demand) issue...

Square Enix is not going to take the wards away because they have kept doubling down on the concept since 2.1. They have also stated they don't intend to release more wards because of limited ressources. Should they consider adding instanced housing? Sure. But until then, adding more and more plots is not a solution because some servers aren't even full and it makes no sense from a business perspective. Players willingly chose to stay on populated servers for various reasons. That is no SE's problem.

Your idea of giving housing to everyone is ludicrous since its one of the only gil sinks in the game, even though they keep diminishing it for whatever reason. There wasn't nearly as many complaints regarding the state of housing back in ARR. Players could actually gamble with the devaluation timer on populated and that was perfectly fine. Making housing stupidly cheap and multiplying the available plots by 10 is the reason why we're here.

Id like proof of all of these so called things youve done. If I dont see proof its considered a lie in my book. If they are true congratz youve won a medal.

Read that line over and over and tell me who's being childish here? You demand that I provide evidence, then you disregard it all. /clap /clap /clap

Because I'm good sport unlike someone else...
https://twitter.com/YshtolaCat/statu...45398164516864
https://twitter.com/YshtolaCat/statu...42812376731648
Message them if you want. They changed location but are still in the Mist under BDC.

Have I done anything for Gilga as a whole? No. Ive given newbies donations. Thats about it. Do I have proof? No I dont. (You have no reason to believe me either)

Yeah... donations to newbies... let's pretend you gave a couple dozens millions to sprouts, so the comparison isn't unfair, you would still be miles behind me on helping out players on the server.

I literally just said what you do with those houses. Nothing. (Last I heard you were trying to sell them off at a premium). Why ask a stupid question.

Stupid question? More like you have no clue. Here, let me enlighten you:

I charge Aetherial wheels in every single house. (gotta love selling primed tier 3 FC buffs to FCs such as yours because of a lack of anticipation and/or ressources)
I use flowerpots in every single house.
I use the garden(s) on every single house.
I decorated the inside and outside of every single house.
I use 20 airships and 13 submarines spread across those houses.

Why do you care if I want to sell them off at a "premium"? I mean if you have roughly 2 billion, we can talk about it... but you probably don't have more than a couple hundred K's with that attitude. I believe 2,000,000,000 is a good starting point considering you get 20 houses, that don't have to be repurchased, in the same ward. I'll let you know some neighbors were very shrewd negotiators when it was time to talk about evictions. I would be glad to see a roleplaying FC pick the ward up or anyone else who has more original plans than mine which consists of making an insane amount of money off of these houses.

If there is a reason theyre all blocked off then please enlighten us. (And news flash, you arent special so drop the condescending attitude)

Blocked off? Do you hold a grudge against players who lock their houses? Well be reassured, all of the houses are accessible to the public and have always been. You can literally run through the vegetation if you didn't know...

Much love

[Shougun]

I'm confused, are you talking about your suggestion or what we are working with right now regarding relocation? And how is house trading much harder now since players are forced to fight each other for very mediocre plots just to purchase off someone to relocate to their spot. In the end, you end up with a vacant plot getting picked up and the process starts all over again.

Was discussing a new system, not the current system.

The suggestion was to replace the placard random unknown waiting timer system and introduce a lottery that lasts for whatever amount of time SE thinks of. At the end of the lottery those interested get raffled and one is a winner. Every house that becomes available either through demolition or relocation (leaving a plot) will go through the lottery, so if someone tried to sell a space they're only selling a chance at it.

This means no more waiting at a placard for many hours, just sign up, pray to Thal, and leave to play the game lol.

Square Enix is not going to take the wards away because they have kept doubling down on the concept since 2.1. They have also stated they don't intend to release more wards because of limited ressources. Should they consider adding instanced housing? Sure. But until then, adding more and more plots is not a solution because some servers aren't even full and it makes no sense from a business perspective. Players willingly chose to stay on populated servers for various reasons. That is no SE's problem.

Didn't ask to destroy the wards. I think doing that would be a mistake and in general I don't like changing the carpet underneath people. But the current system is bad in many ways (imo) and I believe creating a new system would be best (doubling down on bad is not as helpful as making something more powerful and flexible, like instanced housing - imo). "Instanced housing" wording used here of course in that sense of being more dynamic to the demands, ESO, Wildstar, Garrison, etc, etc, where there isn't really a supply limit (as many want to have it do get to have it, no weird hoops to jump through or servers to abandon).

Your idea of giving housing to everyone is ludicrous since its one of the only gil sinks in the game, even though they keep diminishing it for whatever reason. There wasn't nearly as many complaints regarding the state of housing back in ARR. Players could actually gamble with the devaluation timer on populated and that was perfectly fine. Making housing stupidly cheap and multiplying the available plots by 10 is the reason why we're here.

Didn't say remove gil sink :3. I said make a small area (even one small room) free to everyone, and then give them the tools to upgrade that into a zone/large house. Like in FFXI how you were given a room but you could upgrade it for more space and a second floor, except I'm saying here make it even a longer progression (floors, outdoors, etc, etc). Imo ideally to the point it becomes Wildstar tier housing.

If you want a large house (or even larger given that a system is made powerful enough like Wildstar) then you will still be playing part in the gil sink. The gil sink wasn't removed. I believe plopping the system into people's laps is better as they will toy with it out of curiousity vs having to invest in a system that they're not sure they're ready to go that deep investment with. "oh I like this room, I want it larger" and "well I guess I have a place of my own so I should probably get some stuff to put it in (visit marketward)" is a better gil sink than "I don't want to spend that much money on something I'm not sure I'll love in a place I'm not really fond of in a system that will remove it from me if I don't touch it frequently".

I believe investment is important and do not want the concept gone, but I think the barrier to entry should be exceptionally low (and the supply 1:1). Of course the first step in the progression ladder isn't a mansion (not saying give everyone a free mansion and 5000 yalms of land), like FFXI it'd start small (but potential for a lot of growth and power). So if you wanted a small house, medium, large, etc (if instanced it has opportunity for more dynamic progression and steps), then you'll still invest and the sink still there - I believe in this route the sink is actually much larger overall .

[IkaraGreydancer]

Was discussing a new system, not the current system.

This means no more waiting at a placard for many hours, just sign up, pray to Thal, and leave to play the game lol.




Didn't ask to destroy the wards. I think doing that would be a mistake and in general I don't like changing the carpet underneath people. But the current system is bad in many ways (imo) and I believe creating a new system would be best (doubling down on bad is not as helpful as making something more powerful and flexible, like instanced housing - imo). "Instanced housing" wording used here of course in that sense of being more dynamic to the demands, ESO, Wildstar, Garrison, etc, etc, where there isn't really a supply limit (as many want to have it do get to have it, no weird hoops to jump through or servers to abandon).



Didn't say remove gil sink :3. I said make a small area (even one small room) free to everyone, and then give them the tools to upgrade that into a zone/large house. Like in FFXI how you were given a room but you could upgrade it for more space and a second floor, except I'm saying here make it even a longer progression (floors, outdoors, etc, etc). Imo ideally to the point it becomes Wildstar tier housing.

If you want a large house (or even larger given that a system is made powerful enough like Wildstar) then you will still be playing part in the gil sink. The gil sink wasn't removed. I believe plopping the system into people's laps is better as they will toy with it out of curiousity vs having to invest in a system that they're not sure they're ready to go that deep investment with. "oh I like this room, I want it larger" and "well I guess I have a place of my own so I should probably get some stuff to put it in (visit marketward)" is a better gil sink than "I don't want to spend that much money on something I'm not sure I'll love in a place I'm not really fond of in a system that will remove it from me if I don't touch it frequently".

I believe investment is important and do not want the concept gone, but I think the barrier to entry should be exceptionally low (and the supply 1:1). Of course the first step in the progression ladder isn't a mansion (not saying give everyone a free mansion and 5000 yalms of land), like FFXI it'd start small (but potential for a lot of growth and power). So if you wanted a small house, medium, large, etc (if instanced it has opportunity for more dynamic progression and steps), then you'll still invest and the sink still there - I believe in this route the sink is actually much larger overall .

I gotta say. I really love that idea

[Yshtola]

Was discussing a new system, not the current system.

Then I guess we did not understand each other.

The suggestion was to get rid of the placard random unknown waiting timer system and replace it with a lottery that lasts for whatever amount of time SE thinks of. At the end of the lottery those interested get raffled and one is a winner. Every house that becomes available either through demolition or relocation (leaving a plot) will go through the lottery, so if you try to sell your space you're only selling a chance at it.

We used to have that. It was called devaluation. Now the prices are so incredibly low that its not doing its job.

Didn't ask to destroy the wards. I think doing that would be a mistake and in general I don't like changing the carpet underneath people. But the current system is bad in many ways (imo) and I believe creating a new system would be best (doubling down on bad is not as helpful as making something more powerful and flexible, like instanced housing).

Didn't say remove gil sink. I said make a small area (even one small room) free to everyone, and then give them the tools to upgrade that into a zone/large house. Like in FFXI how you were given a room but you could upgrade it for more space and a second floor, except I'm saying here make it even a longer progression (floors, outdoors, etc, etc). Imo ideally to the point it becomes Wildstar tier housing.

I didn't imply you wanted to get rid of the wards, I was giving context... Context as to why putting out more plots is not a solution or how the "lack" of plots is even the reason why we're in this situation. You did indirectly talk about removing a gil sink by introducing something similar to an apt :3. 300k isnt much but its better than 300k that is still in circulation. If teleportation has a cost, I don't see why anything could justify handing out freebies to players, especially when everything related to housing has a cost. There's plenty of items that are not obtainable for everyone in this game and that's the way it should be.

I'll just point out that Wildstar doesn't exist anymore. Surely that game did a few things wrong in order to not be financially stable. You know, some decisions just come back to haunt you sometimes...

~~~

Bodied.