Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Physic]

and you're saying the minority is entitled to steal the time of the other players based on whatever arbitrary decision they like. if someone is unwilling to even try, they shouldn't be so offended if the group removes them.

there is a fair expectation which depends on the content being attempted, and what the agreement was going into that content.

dungeon duty finder only expects that you be a person in the right role, capable of completing, and actually attempting to complete the content.


what i am saying is it unfair to come into a random casual duty finder and expect optimal play on penalty of time wasted, just because there are more optimal players than not optimal players.

yeah i know, people in duty finder arent great, sometimes its annoying, but if i signed up to play with people of random skill level and experience, i accept they are likely to have random skill level and experience, and i'm not going to punish them for attempting to play the game.

[Lilseph]

your saying majority is entitled to steal the time of the other player based on whatever arbitrary decision they like.

I always do what it's best for the majority within reason. You can't please everyone, but at least if you do, aim to please the majority. It sucks that your time got wasted, but you had a choice and you decided to not think of the group when making that decision.

[Mavrias]

if you dont want to put up with others, its up to you to create that situation in an MMO. You can, through party finder group with like minded individuals with specific specifications. The fact that you didnt use the tool made for that means its unfair of you to penalize players for not meeting those specifications.

if they only have 30 minutes to play, and they queued for a specific dungeon, they could have wasted a queue time of 10 minutes, and like 6 minutes of dungeon progress. Its a group activity aimed at normal completion with average players. I think people should set their expectations accordingly.

why should i go to party finder if i dont have above average expecations? not to mention why would i use party finder for a regular dungeon, period? at level caps, and i do mean all 3 level caps, big pulls are the norm, not small pulls. obviously that is not necessarily the case in leveling dungeons.

if someone only has 30 minutes to play, why is that my concern? why does it matter to me if they queued specifically for this dungeon for whatever reason? what do i care what they did to get in the dungeon?

again im not advocating that everyone plays one specific way or dont play at all. simply that if you and your party are in disagreement for whatever reason, and the minority is unwilling to compromise or hear the majority out, they should not be surprised of they are removed from the duty.

[hydralus]

Also I'd like to add it's odd that people are playing an RPG (and a final fantasy one, no less) without an interest in their stats and their character's abilities. I thought RPG players liked to read and test things out to break the game as much as they could?

[Kaedan]

so, when does the excuse "new and inexperienced" fall flat? when should your party be able to criticize someone without them going "im new its not fair to expect me to try to meet any sort of expectation or standard or request"


not liking something someone did does not mean you were bullied.

Wow, talk about strawman from left field.

Context my friend. Stay within it. In this case, the tank was pulling single groups rather than gathering multiple groups. They are meeting the dungeon's standards of design, and thus perfectly within the bounds of reason and thus kicking them was blatant harassment.

As I said, if the tank is AFKing or going ridiculously slow for no reason, then that is a completely different story.


EDIT: Furthermore, if it's their first time tanking the dungeon or they are otherwise inexperienced, they aren't going to improve if you kick them. They're just going to get pissed off and never tank again (making dps queues that much longer).

You asked about the "line"? The line is when someone is obviously trolling/wasting time vs taking it slow (read: not unreasonably) due to lack of experience or lack of confidence.

[Physic]

I mean, telling people not to boot people is kinda the same as telling people to pull more, telling someone how to play. I've heard of plenty of people booting for "playstyle differences" so, kinda just do what you think is right kinda situation.

Edit: If it is indeed the majority of a party vs just the tank, why should 3 people be inconvenienced in the pf to "find what they want" rather than the tank who obviously is in need of hand holding?

what i am saying is its not about what the majority wants, its about what is a fair expectation for the content.

the expectation will vary depending on the content, and what you agreed to going into the content.

[cicatriz313]

what i am saying is its not about what the majority wants, its about what is a fair expectation for the content.

the expectation will vary depending on the content, and what you agreed to going into the content.

I dunno about you, but maybe 85% of dungeon runs I've been in in the past like.. 3 years have been pulling to the wall aoe grinds. Like so much so that it's a complaint people have about the design of the game. So if it's all about fair expectation, we should expect people to do the norm, not be terrible. But of course that's not what you're saying.

[Mavrias]

Wow, talk about strawman from left field.

Context my friend. Stay within it. In this case, the tank was pulling single groups rather than gathering multiple groups. They are meeting the dungeon's standards of design, and thus perfectly within the bounds of reason and thus kicking them was blatant harassment.

As I said, if the tank is AFKing or going ridiculously slow for no reason, then that is a completely different story.

lmao i didnt make up "what if they were new and inexperienced" it was literally in the comment i replied to. thats not a strawman.


being kicked is not being harassed. the party thinking i dont want to play with this person (for whatever reason) and then removing them from the group is not harassment.

[Lewtskie]

As a Warrior, massive pulls are the only way to actually feel any satisfaction in dungeons. That said, this is a really peculiar subject cause I feel pull rate has to vary on a bunch of things. Some dungeons force wall stops, or have mobs you want to keep separated, some dps Jobs are better with AoEs than others, even DPS with good AoEs may be played by people with terrible ability, I have Comcast and there can be days, albeit rarely, that my ping is abysmal and missing a cooldown or mob can happen.

In general, I feel a Tank SHOULD pull as much as they can by default as it sets a baseline and then adjust depending on the above. Always have that first large initial pull.

[SenorPatty]

Also I'd like to add it's odd that people are playing an RPG (and a final fantasy one, no less) without an interest in their stats and their character's abilities. I thought RPG players liked to read and test things out to break the game as much as they could?

Single player rpgs provide the most optimal environment to do all this at no one's expense. MMOs do not.


I could go in-depth but I feel like this short and direct answer covers all the bases.