5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

[Ogulbuk]

You have no proof that this is the case, but you are insisting Yoshida is considering it?

From a Korean LL about 5 months ago:



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...n_translation/

I never said I knew this specifically was being considered, I said consolidation or removal was being considered, and you seem to have posted evidence of it.

I consider it a shame If it’s true combo consolidation is out of the table (according to that quote) but you are being awfully defensive over a speculation/wish thread. You won’t change my mind and obviously I won’t change yours, I still kind of would like to understand opposition but not to convince anyone.

Regardless, what we talk here is not going to change development paths. It’s not like YoshiP will come here, see my post, and say “hey, no one is jumping at his throat for wanting it... maybe I should implement what he wants!”

[HyoMinPark]

I never said I knew this specifically was being considered, I said consolidation or removal was being considered, and you seem to have posted evidence of it.

No, you specifically said consolidation AND removal—not consolidation OR removal. Recheck your wording; if you meant to write the latter, you wrote the former.

The evidence I posted said consolidation will not be an option—the premise you posted originally was that you wanted PvP-esque combo consolidation to occur in PvE.

Instead, they will remove lesser used abilities to free up hotbar space over consolidating full combos, which is something a lot of jobs can benefit from (compare this to combo consolidation, which I already said will not really help the jobs that suffer the most from button bloat, particularly SMN and SCH, and AST also has a lot of buttons on its hotbars, what with all the card buttons). I can think of several abilities off the top of my head that should have been deleted (or never debuted) with 4.0’s release (One-Ilm Punch, Piercing Talon, Throwing Dagger, Repose, Fluid Aura, Blank Shot, Tether... to name a few).


There are a few instances where buttons could toggle into other buttons—similar to how Steel Cyclose/Inner Beast toggle into Decimate/Fell Cleave when a WAR is in Deliverance. For example, BRD could stand to have the Wanderer’s Minuet turn into Pitch Perfect while active. Straight Shot could also change into Refulgent Arrow while under the effect of Straighter Shot. That would free up 2 buttons there... but BRD is also a job that does not suffer from hotbar space issues.

That being said, I still do not see the need to consolidate full combos—I do not find jobs that have combos, like MNK, DRG, NIN, and SAM, to have serious hotbar real estate issues. If you find them to have issues, that may be because you are not using all of the hotbar options available to you as a controller player. I addressed those options already, and I still suggest you try them. Using the extended cross does not require any sort of nimbleness of fingers; it simply requires the ability to hold down both L2 and R2 at the same time—L2>R2 for one half of the extended cross, and R2>L2 for the other half.

I consider it a shame If it’s true combo consolidation is out of the table (according to that quote) but you are being awfully defensive over a speculation/wish thread. You won’t change my mind and obviously I won’t change yours, I still kind of would like to understand opposition but not to convince anyone.

I’m having a hard time understanding how I’m being defensive. You’re mistaken if you think I’m getting defensive in my responses to you; I’m just contesting your statement of it being something that is being considered with a statement that it is not being considered.

I’m also not here to change your mind—I’m just here to tell you that it’s unlikely to happen, as well as explain why it is something NOT on my wishlist for 5.0.

My issues with the skill consolidation is that it is—
1.) highly unlikely to be optional for only the players that want it—the development team seems to like streamlining experiences, so they would likely force it on everyone
2.) it will not work for all jobs—how do you consolidate combos for jobs that don’t have combos?
3.) it will likely not benefit those that need help with hotbar space (SMN/SCH/AST), as they are not jobs that have combos to consolidate—the exception here is PLD, which has really bad hotbar real estate right now, but it could also stand to have some things removed
4.) if the developers want to introduce completely new skills over upgrading existing ones, after the addition of new skills, it’s likely that we’ll still have the same number of abilities on our bars, so where did we truly go after the consolidation?


Honestly, I’d rather see skills upgrade into something stronger rather than us get 5 new skills. Changes like BRD’s Windbite/Venomous Bite upgrading into Stormbite/Caustic Bite are the things I would rather see. We don’t need new buttons to get new and stronger abilities. Some useless abilities need to be removed—some abilities also should be shifted down in terms of the level you learn them.


It’s my wish that a system like this does not appear in PvE, as I did not like it being introduced to PvP (I subsequently stopped participating in PvP with the change), and I will not like it being introduced to PvE. I simply think there are other, better changes the dev team could make to the battle system instead of consolidation—like addressing the imbalances between tanks, healers, and the physical ranged.

WHY do you want to make healing more difficult? This would just add more things to remember and complicate a rotation, which is exactly what Yoshi P is trying to get away from. I believe he said something akin to classes suffering from skill bloat and is looking for ways to reduce them. Plus, if they're going to add more skills from 70-80, they are going to have to cut things down.

Healing isn’t difficult in this game—it’s quite simple because all damage in encounters is scripted and predictable.
Healer rotations are also very simple—DoT management + Malefic III/Stone IV/Broil II spam. Heal when needed, either with GCD or an oGCD.

I’m curious as to why you think healing is difficult, or that healer rotations are something particularly complex.

[Ogulbuk]

Damn testament of a post that I won’t bother reading, but I’ll give you that I did write “and” instead of what I was thinking “and/or.” You obviously are just trying to win some argument that is not actually talking place, though, so, have a good one.

[HyoMinPark]

Damn testament of a post that I won’t bother reading, but I’ll give you that I did write “and” instead of what I was thinking “and/or.” You obviously are just trying to win some argument that is not actually talking place, though, so, have a good one.

I’m sorry that I decided to post something thorough in response to what you said. Given this response, I don’t think I was the defensive one in this exchange. Have a nice evening.

[Selova]

snip.

You say you have no reference but somehow you came to the understanding that Yoshi P. was considering consolidating combos into 1 button, this is you misinterpreting what he said. Hyomin already posted it, he was referring to abilities that barely get any use in PvE (one ilm punch ect.) not that he was going to consolidate combos for classes into 1 single button. He has never said he was considering doing this period.

[Physic]

You say you have no reference but somehow you came to the understanding that Yoshi P. was considering consolidating combos into 1 button, this is you misinterpreting what he said. Hyomin already posted it, he was referring to abilities that barely get any use in PvE (one ilm punch ect.) not that he was going to consolidate combos for classes into 1 single button. He has never said he was considering doing this period.

dont touch my one inch punch, id actually rather them consolidate the combos, but it doesnt work for monk since there is a very good skill that allows you to ignore stances.