Add ilv requirement please in ShB[Dev Request]

[Eli85]

Too many insulting and trolling replies to quote, but the fact that the responses are all, "You don't know what you're talking about," instead of actually discussing and giving reasons why I'm wrong is telling. Look, outside of giving the big personal DPS jobs every buff in the book, DPS enmity just does not outpace tank enmity when the tank is being played correctly. I have seen this play out in groups way too many times to doubt it. If you look at BLM in particular, and you start in Umbral Ice (which you will for every single raid encounter), the most popular guide even says, point blank, that you do not need to use Diversion. So are the BLM theorycrafters also ignorant? Please.

Ultimately I—and hopefully many others—will take empirical experience and theorycrafters over the opinions of insult and troll-ready posters.

[Deceptus]

If you look at BLM in particular, and you start in Umbral Ice (which you will for every single raid encounter), the most popular guide even says, point blank, that you do not need to use Diversion. So are the BLM theorycrafters also ignorant? Please.

You realize other jobs can ramp up a LOT faster than BLM right (i.e. RDM)? That's what diversion is for.

You realize that Diversion protects against early crits in DPS rotations right? Early in the fight when tanks are attempting to establish aggro are the most crucial times in the fight.

There is honestly zero reason to not use Diversion on the pull other than laziness or worse ineptitude.

You are absolutely ignorant of how important Diversion is; that's why people are treating you as such. Your posts sound exactly like something someone who has never played DPS or tanks at a high skill level would say.

EDIT: Yep. Doesn't even have tanks unlocked, save for DRK - which is level 30. But you obviously know what you're talking about when it comes to tank aggro, tank play, and Diversion. Give me a break. Play a tank at level 70 against a good DPS that refuses to quell their aggro, and then come back to me about how Diversion is a crutch.

Troll is troll. I should probably stop feeding them.

Leveling dungeons should have a gear requirement 15 item levels below the gear they drop. This would bring them into line with level 50, 60 and 70 dungeons.

For Stormblood this would mean
-245 Sirensong
-255 Shisui
-261 Bardam
-267 Doma
-273 Castrum

And lastly Ala Mhigo requires item level 280 which is a steady increase to the previous gear requirements.

100% agree, it wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate this to other dungeons as well. The 15 ilvl threshold seem reasonable.

[Kalise]

Too many insulting and trolling replies to quote, but the fact that the responses are all, "You don't know what you're talking about," instead of actually discussing and giving reasons why I'm wrong is telling. Look, outside of giving the big personal DPS jobs every buff in the book, DPS enmity just does not outpace tank enmity when the tank is being played correctly. I have seen this play out in groups way too many times to doubt it. If you look at BLM in particular, and you start in Umbral Ice (which you will for every single raid encounter), the most popular guide even says, point blank, that you do not need to use Diversion. So are the BLM theorycrafters also ignorant? Please.

Please show me a single BLM guide that says not to use Diversion.

Literally every single one I find, tells you to precast Diversion on the pull. Even if starting in UI.

Also, please tell me where exists literally any documentation of a "Optimal Tank" guide in which Tank enmity does not rely on players using enmity reducers. Given that Circle Shirking is also a necessary tool in order to keep enmity for optimal Tank play as well as there being a heavy focus towards using WAR's to pull because of their high initial enmity gain at the lowest DPS cost.

[Sieben79]

Too many insulting and trolling replies to quote, but the fact that the responses are all, "You don't know what you're talking about," instead of actually discussing and giving reasons why I'm wrong is telling. Look, outside of giving the big personal DPS jobs every buff in the book, DPS enmity just does not outpace tank enmity when the tank is being played correctly. I have seen this play out in groups way too many times to doubt it. If you look at BLM in particular, and you start in Umbral Ice (which you will for every single raid encounter), the most popular guide even says, point blank, that you do not need to use Diversion. So are the BLM theorycrafters also ignorant? Please.

Ultimately I—and hopefully many others—will take empirical experience and theorycrafters over the opinions of insult and troll-ready posters.

Use diversion before casting Ice 3. Use it when counter hits "4" immedatly casting Ice 3 after and your cast gets off at "Start". It's easy to use, so why not.

[Anselmet]

Too many insulting and trolling replies to quote, but the fact that the responses are all, "You don't know what you're talking about," instead of actually discussing and giving reasons why I'm wrong is telling. Look, outside of giving the big personal DPS jobs every buff in the book, DPS enmity just does not outpace tank enmity when the tank is being played correctly. I have seen this play out in groups way too many times to doubt it.

Hey if we're gonna cherry pick, let me get in on this. Quick reddit search for blackmage guides batman! Diversion! Oh look someone critique that someone's guide doesn't have DIVERSION Oh hey, same reddit thread yet different guide DIVERSION! And another one with diversion!

So are the BLM theorycrafters also ignorant? Please.

If blm theorycrafters are you then YES! Don't make me go back on reddit for more theorycrafting guides on other classes. Cuz I hate to break it to you, but uh, most classes use this little skill called diversion.

[Ilan]

Not incorrect at all. Enmity reducers in this game, honestly, are just a crutch for poor tank play. Even when the highest DPSers are going all out (and does not use Enmity reducers), and they pull aggro, something went wrong with the tank.



Ah, yes, how wonderful these counter-arguments are: accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about and heavily implying I'm ignorant. Wonderful. No, I know what I'm talking about. Enmity reducers are a crutch. If you can't handle DPSers that don't use Diversion, you may want to re-think tanking.

It is obvious that you don't know what you are talking about and that you are ignorant otherwhise you wouldn't spread such nonsense. Emnity control is the job of the whole party and if you are using your emnity control properly the tank can drop tankstance and also deal more dps. But hey you know better anyway, right? May the shirk be with you.

[Spiralgaia]

That gear level seems normal for first-timers going in there. Also, I'm pretty sure there isn't an ilvl sync for Shinryu, so a new tank will definitely have to work harder if the majority of the party is at 370+. Most of the time I end up in there, I typically have more HP as a healer (due to 380/390 gear) than a tank if they're new. I feel like SE should have put a 350 or so sync on it just to keep it from getting too far out of control. As long as they can get the mechanics figured out it almost always goes well, even if some random over-geared players end up taking some hits occasionally. As far as the other tank, that was definitely a lazy/bad one. They should have stepped up and at least tried to hold top aggro so only one DPS or healer would get hit if the other tank couldn't keep up.

That's the kicker, they weren't a new tank. They had more classes to 70 and when questioned about the gear, they didn't even reply. They simply pulled Shinryu to prevent from kicking. (Which also means they hadn't run the job quest, as it gives a full i290 set...)
I did stand corrected, as Shinryu has a limit of i280.
Unfortunately, with both tanks not doing their job, the other healer, a RDM and I had to take the brunt of almost all autoattacks. (Though I do agree some manner of synch wouldn't be bad there.)

And of course this was just one of the MANY instances I had to witness where someone went into something undergeared and made it arguably harder for everyone.

[Anarnee]

God please, if I run into another tank in Bardam's, Doma Castle, or Castrum Abania, that tries to do large pulls when they still have on ilv 100 stuff, Imma scream.

It's especially infuriating because they always try to blame the healer.

[Eldevern]

I suppose there are BLM who both never almost crit-pull and never played one of the FFXIV tanks... It so easy to stole enimity accidentaly (start dps a little too soon, or without diversion, or because tank is simply undergeared or DPS is overgeared and do full burst).

Thought RDM and SMR are told to be even worst than BLM to stole enimity. WHM are not bad either to stole enimity on undergeared tanks .

[Gula]

Too many insulting and trolling replies to quote, but the fact that the responses are all, "You don't know what you're talking about," instead of actually discussing and giving reasons why I'm wrong is telling.

Remember to report rude posts, or else they'll stay and continue to stay and be rude to others. Other times it's just better to not react because that's how tensions rise and people really get to scratching each other beyond forum passive aggressiveness. I stay firm in my belief that Diversion is not necessary for dungeons. Because they are dungeons. For higher level dungeons- which is what this thread is all about as well as the focus n o t being on Savage, if your gear is up to par you wouldn't be taking enmity off the tank anyway unless they were out of tank stance and DPS-ing instead of tanking.