Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Seraphor]

Like I said yesterday...

RDMs heal is a self sustain, like Second Wind, and that's all it needs to be.

But it could be useful if it contributed to DPS given it's a GCD with a cast time.

So perhaps it should generate white mana.
Then if we balance that with a new black magic utility spell that generates black mana...

Vercure additional trait: If you recover HP with Vercure (i.e. the target isn't already at full HP) then you generate 5 white mana.
Plus 'Verward': Receive 20% less damage from the next hit you receive, if that damage is magic damage, you gain 5 black mana.

Throw in a 'Verfreeze': Deals 350 potency damage to all enemies in range and inflicts bind. Upon using Verfreeze, you gain 8 mana towards whichever is the lowest.
Along with an Enchanted Moulinet trait: 30% chance of proc'ing Verfreeze.

And I think that's all RDM needs. Plus, it now has an even number of black and white inspired Ver spells.

[Mansion]

Vercure additional trait: If you recover HP with Vercure (i.e. the target isn't already at full HP) then you generate 5 white mana.
Plus 'Verward': Receive 20% less damage from the next hit you receive, if that damage is magic damage, you gain 5 black mana.

Still not nearly interesting enough to use it over VerStone or VerFire, or even Impact. 5 mana is too low for a DPS GCD loss.
Wasn't it you suggesting a Regen that would tick White mana? This could work if it was an offGCD ability.

[Seraphor]

Still not nearly interesting enough to use it over VerStone or VerFire, or even Impact. 5 mana is too low for a DPS GCD loss.

The mana gain isn't meant to replace your core DPS rotation, it's compensation for having to break it. It would still be an emergency skill, you're not playing healer.

[Mansion]

The mana gain isn't meant to replace your core DPS rotation, it's compensation for having to break it. It would still be an emergency skill, you're not playing healer.

Yeah but I really don't see the point. In an Ext or Savage fight, I have don't think I have ever used VerCure outside of dual cast proc during a phase transition.
Because VerCure is now around 10 to 12K heal, it makes no difference whatsoever. In theory, it could save a tank from a coming auto-attack if their health pool is too low for whatever reason. Yet, as a DPS I can't say I watch over tanks' health. And if I did happen to see the critical situation, I still need a bit of time for reaction and casting, where I guess a healer would have done something by then. Or the tank died

[Seraphor]

Yeah but I really don't see the point. In an Ext or Savage fight, I have don't think I have ever used VerCure outside of dual cast proc during a phase transition.
Because VerCure is now around 10 to 12K heal, it makes no difference whatsoever. In theory, it could save a tank from a coming auto-attack if their health pool is too low for whatever reason. Yet, as a DPS I can't say I watch over tanks' health. And if I did happen to see the critical situation, I still need a bit of time for reaction and casting, where I guess a healer would have done something by then. Or the tank died

…so?
Not everything is based on savage raids.

Vercure and Verraise are both unecessary outside of prog, and AoE combos in general are pointless in pretty much all raids.
It can still be useful, either outside of raids or in prog, so why should we put up with the DPS loss it entails?

This is about comparing Vercure to its equivalents as a self-sustain heal.
Second Wind is an instant oGCD, so it doesn’t impact DPS at all.
Vercure might be spammable, but it’s a big DPS loss, you lose a GCD and the gauge you would have gained, plus it costs MP.
Gaining gauge is the only way to compensate for this without making it too convenient (instacast/no mp cost/oGCD, etc) but at the same time, it can’t generate more gauge than you would gain with a DPS skill. As Jolt gives you 6 net mana, 3 of each colour, that’s the limit.

[Wayfinder3]

…so?
Not everything is based on savage raids.

Vercure and Verraise are both unecessary outside of prog, and AoE combos in general are pointless in pretty much all raids.
It can still be useful, either outside of raids or in prog, so why should we put up with the DPS loss it entails?

This is about comparing Vercure to its equivalents as a self-sustain heal.
Second Wind is an instant oGCD, so it doesn’t impact DPS at all.
Vercure might be spammable, but it’s a big DPS loss, you lose a GCD and the gauge you would have gained, plus it costs MP.
Gaining gauge is the only way to compensate for this without making it too convenient (instacast/no mp cost/oGCD, etc) but at the same time, it can’t generate more gauge than you would gain with a DPS skill. As Jolt gives you 6 net mana, 3 of each colour, that’s the limit.

I should say that vercure is balanced as well as possible, while it’s true it sets you back in dps in potency and mana gained. That’s because its an On demand, low mp cost Heal that can not only save you but, someone else. Compared to 2nd wind where this skill heals you once and you’ve gotta hope you survive what ever damage is going out. Vercure is good as it is and doesn’t need to be touched.

[Leidiriv]

I do think that the trait where Vercure increases the damage of your next spell is a good idea and encourages RDM's best practices (using Vercure to proc Dualcast while the boss is jumping). Plus it'd be some fun flavor, tying into the whole "arcane accelerator" fantasy.

[Archwizard]

I do think that the trait where Vercure increases the damage of your next spell is a good idea and encourages RDM's best practices (using Vercure to proc Dualcast while the boss is jumping). Plus it'd be some fun flavor, tying into the whole "arcane accelerator" fantasy.

That and I think it could be an interesting experiment to expand off that and make it give the bonus to your target instead of you.

So you can still self-heal and gain the potency, but you can use it to charge up an ally who's about to die otherwise.

[Archwizard]

I suggested that our un-enchanted melee combo should give us a nice chunk of mana back. I think it would be the easiest way, let's say one third of our mana pool in three actions (remember that they have a lower potency and don't trigger the 1.5 GCD).
So giving one or two full un-enchanted combo after a raise / death would be still a DPS loss, but it would make sure we can resume our DPS safely.

I think my main concern with this is that while the option's there for us to use, it encourages bad practices for RDMs and doesn't give us that level of sustainability in our primary rotation.
Not to mention that a third of our mana pool per use means very fast recovery from Verraise, which I think defeats the purpose of making rez-spam so expensive for us. The pendulum would swing straight from "crippling addiction to LD" to "never needing to touch LD just like BLM", and giving up DPS for recovery means squat when the alternative is having zero resources to DPS.

It seems more balanced to me, and more fitting I think, for us to gain some type of boost to our natural MP regen, or a weak Refresh state we can keep up at all times. Enough so we recover MP faster than our main rotation spends it, but still require time to recover from Verraise spam.

Pretty quick test shows it takes us about ~13 seconds to recover 1200 MP while in combat at 70 (14400 max); we spend on average 840 MP every 4.5-ish seconds before SpS; napkin math says 4.5 sec is around 415 MP recovered, so under current conditions we just need to double our natural regen to make the rotation sustainable -- about 2% Refresh.
This is of course assuming our melee combo doesn't gain an MP cost in Shadowbringers, and without taking into account how SpS may increase our need. However, given that DoT and HoT effects are affected by SpS anyway, connecting future regen to that instead of base MP regeneration would take the anxiety away from that.

Hence my prior suggestion of Verfreeze.

[Mansion]

I think my main concern with this is that while the option's there for us to use, it encourages bad practices for RDMs

Well so does VerCure actually. Playing healer in most roulettes / raids, I see a lot of RDM using VerCure when they technically should not.
Now, reading your post does make it clear about the numbers, I did not give it too much thoughts. The idea is just that when you are out of mana with no recovery solutions, well your Melee combo is the only thing left, and it still has a decent DPS output (still more than VerCure ;D) as it scales on INT.
A small refresh additional effect on something, coupled with Lucid Dreaming would be okay


Seraphor, I think we don't agree. I belive almost everything is designed with an end-game mindset when it comes to job kits, with a few exceptions here and there for CC / solo content that do not come in calculation. AOE is basic for most jobs and I don't get the point of going extensively in that direction when it's only used in dungeons, when it's content that does not need any particular skill or effort.
Now if ShB makes dungeons actually challenging (and the overall game a bit harder), then I'm up for discussion on this topic. Right now, I don't see the point.

I think it's a waste of a Trait/Action slot to add an AOE finisher in the 70-80 levels. If it's an earlier level change, then it's fine (Tether could be reworked as Tri-Bind was for SMN and it did change its AOE rotation)