Gender locked race?

[Shougun]

I keep seeing these arguments regarding the original games and how the males weren't shown, and I'm just okay. These things are pretty easy to explain away. If Matsuno didn't like the idea of a male Viera he wouldn't have created the lore to have them in the first place. This kind of thinking where oh 'well they didn't add them into the game = well the creator doesn't like them' is silly.

Eeeh... I can see why it's hard for some to believe- especially as your desire would want you to disbelieve it possibly.. but honestly you could also easily explain away why male viera are vaguely mentioned too in context of "I don't really want them".

The first step of the problem is probably not being in the mindset of genderlocking is okay, which clearly SE was at least (XI/XIV). I would say it's safe to assume others who have worked at SE in the past could have been too (maybe not all, but not some legendary rarity only at high levels of their MMOs). Also comparing to other Asian games... seems likely to be a thing.

Imo its clear female Viera's visuals at minimum were picked for their sex appeal, in fact they're so out there that if it wasn't for the fact they're from SE themselves I'm fairly certain I'd get in trouble for posting too many photos of them lol. Put the FFXIV version in their race outfit in a few risque poses within the game and you have yourself a cover to some adult content sold in Japan .

Now what's a good way to kill that sort of fan service/playing to sex appeal? Make them incapable of what people see in them.. SO imo in this idea, and accepting that genderlocking isn't bizarre to some people there, /of course/ the male viera are mentioned and of course they're only vaguely so. Male viera are only a backdrop that paints an image, and oh my are the male viera literally just a tiny footnote in the series lol.

So I think if you tried to shift your perspective to someone who doesn't think such fanservice and such locking isn't so weird that that your statement "they wouldn't have created the lore if they didn't like them" becomes /possibly/ untrue. I'm not saying it's for sure, but I think if you shifted your view of things (which one must if we're trying to imagine changing our shoes to someone else) that it's actually possible that male viera's existence in the series is a little blob of ink to better paint female viera exclusively and all that matters is the females.

Could be untrue of course but I'm just saying you think they're easy to explain away and I'm saying it's true both ways, unfortunately :P.

[redcurrant18]

I think people are reading too much into the "forest fire" at this point. We saw one small part of the forest on fire, but we don't know the scope of it.

If I remember correctly, the area where the fire occurs is also the same one near where the Nu Mou are standing one of the promotional screenshots. The Viera seem to live in more advanced tree-house structures far higher above the ground.

[Karl0217]

You seriously still have an issue understanding the fundamental difference between you making a definitive statement that they did something (without evidence), and me saying they might have done something because of different reasons.

On the contrary, it is still making a claim as to why they did something and the fact you used an adjective like "probably" doesn't change that fact in the slightest.

As soon as you provide evidence that they did. Your assertion was made first, you provide evidence supporting your claim first. Y'know, because that's actually how debates work.

Oh I am so glad you said that considering how the first post in our little debate was this one by you:

People keep going on like only the JP/NA/EU player's desires/tastes count. They seem to be forgetting the large player bases in the Korean and Chinese markets. People often talk about how genderlocking is a staple of Korean MMO's, so new genderlocked races couldn't possibly be catering to that crowd? Especially when those are areas they would likely look to be increasing their playerbase even more as they may have reached a plateau in the NA/EU/JP regions.

which I replied to and kicked off this entire little discussion. You were the one that made the assertion that they could gender lock the races to increase the market shares in China/Korea first; it's the very first post in our little debate. So according to your standards you are obligated to provide hard evidence, preferably statistical data, supporting your claim that adding gender locked races will increase the player base in China/Korea first. More to the point you also said the player base in the west has plateaued despite the fact it is getting new datacenters in the NA and EU, which devs specifically said was to accommodate a growing population. Provide evidence that it has plateaued in the west.

I'm full well aware Yoshida was not in charge of 2.0, yet you seem to continue to ignore the actual evidence that the very same Yoshida who undid the 1.0 genderlocks...and the complete lack of announcing them when they announced Viera as a race.

He also made comments in those interviews about how he was against adding the Viera, male and female, entirely because he felt the were too close in theme to the Miqo'te. Yet they are being added and the Hrothgar are speculated to also be feline based so his actions after those interviews have already rendered half of what he said in them irrelevant. Why should the other half still hold any significance?

It's not arguing semantics when you're literally saying they said something they didn't say in a hyperbolic attempt to bolster your argument.

In other words, yes you are arguing semantics.

They are making accomodations on Viera gear at least in the helmet category. But it's a good thing race reveal videos don't have them wearing any helmets.

In case you have forgotten genius Fran had a helmet on:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20190108210445

Yet oddly none of the models in the trailer showed said helmet. Makes you wonder just how much trouble they are having modifying the helmets for the Viera character customization options and whither they have other issues adjusting the gear to the Viera skeleton rigging.

Which can certainly apply to there being a different gender locked race instead. Especially since he can cushion such an announcemet with additional details and follow-up panels. Again, he's never had any issue telling us if something isn't ready to show yet. The fact he explicitly didn't do that this time is increasingly suspicious.

All of which is predicated on your reading him saying wait until the Tokyo Fan Fest isn't him implicitly saying he isn't ready to show us just yet.

[Xeno85]

Y'all just gonna play female Viera and say they're just effeminate males in your search info anyway so who cares.

[redcurrant18]

Y'all just gonna play female Viera and say they're just effeminate males in your search info anyway so who cares.

Those of us who want to play as males and not have to wear the female variants of most gear, AF equipment, swimwear, voices, etc

[Xeno85]

It's called a hyperbole. Though forgive me if I am misinformed but wouldn't Viera male playable be somewhat nonsensical from an established lore perspective? From what I recall they live in small communities or alone and are hyper aggressive to outsiders and unlike their female counterparts they never leave the forests they are born in, which in regards to females is also extremely rare. I saw the Keeper male argument but comparing the two is pretty unfair.

[redcurrant18]

It's called a hyperbole. Though forgive me if I am misinformed but wouldn't Viera male playable be somewhat nonsensical from an established lore perspective? From what I recall they live in small communities or alone and are hyper aggressive to outsiders and unlike their female counterparts they never leave the forests they are born in, which in regards to females is also extremely rare. I saw the Keeper male argument but comparing the two is pretty unfair.

Lore in this game is pretty much thrown out the window when it comes to the player's decisions. If lore was followed to the letter, the only correct steps to take would be to block anymore players from creating/fantasiaing into cat boys/roe girls/ and highlander girls, removing all but one white mage and dark knight from the game, and bulldozing all of the lore breaking houses in the city-state neighborhoods. The lore argument does not work here.

[Xeno85]

Lore in this game is pretty much thrown out the window when it comes to the player's decisions. If lore was followed to the letter, the only correct steps to take would be to block anymore players from creating/fantasiaing into cat boys/roe girls/ and highlander girls, removing all but one white mage and dark knight from the game, and bulldozing all of the lore breaking houses in the city-state neighborhoods. The lore argument does not work here.

That's also a hyperbole--I know I started it but let's end it there hm? Of course the lore argument works. What kind of attitude is that? I know we live in the age of near psychotic personal entitlement but you are ultimately enjoying someone else's brainchild. Influencing decision is one thing but making outright demands/threats like in this thread is pretty sick honestly. Sure as hell ain't the way to get through to them either.

[cicatriz313]

Going to reiterate again that him saying wait until Tokyo was in answering a question that had Tokyo in the question. He didn't say wait until Tokyo for info on male Viera. He said oh yeah we do have Tokyo fan fest coming don't we?... Then he zipped his lips. That is definitely sketchy for an answer that's supposed to be saying info is coming

[Shippuu]

On the contrary, it is still making a claim as to why they did something and the fact you used an adjective like "probably" doesn't change that fact in the slightest.

So you're saying there's no difference between saying someone definitely did something, and saying someone probably did something?


I'm really starting to feel like delusional was the correct choice of words. I had typed more but I'm honestly done with this conversation, I've wasted enough time on it.

I will wait and see what happens in march, and I will probably have a good chuckle if male viera don't happen now.