Gender locked race?

[Karl0217]

No, it isn't an unequivocal statement because it's not self evident that them undoing gender locks meant they felt like that was something that damaged the game in any significant way. Unless they come out and state that was the case, claiming such is just an assumption....

Ah, in that case your prior statements like

Them undoing the gender locks isn't indicative of them necessarily feeling like they were damaging to the game, but were likely just one of many avenues they could use to earn bonus points with their existing and future playerbase for the relaunch. Just because they did something to try and regain favor after their game failed so bad it damaged the entire brand doesn't mean they will always do such.

are also merely assumptions without anything resembling hard evidence to back them up. Which according to your little wall of text here makes them effectively meaningless and inconsequential.

If you make a claim and can't back it up, why should I provide evidence for a counter-claim? That's not how it works.

Except you haven't provided evidence for any of your statements in any of your posts to anybody in this thread. You continue to make baseless assumption after baseless assumption, from market shares in China/Korea to the reasons why Square Enix removed the 1.0 genderlocks, and then turn around demand evidence the minute somebody posts an opinion you dislike. You don't get to keep doing that and then hide behind weasel words and phrases the minute someone calls you on it.

There you go putting more words in my mouth, ironically it's the SAME word again.... I never said to what degree it would or could effect them, only that it was worth considering.

While positing it with condescending image and a know-it-all attitude. Well, here is your chance to prove you do know it all; explain how a gender-locked race would boost market shares for Square Enix in China and Korea and provide evidence to back it up. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

It really isn't though. The words of the director himself, the man in charge of signing off on everything that gets put into the game, are FAR stronger...The concept art doesn't dictate what goes into the game, the director of the game does.

And if the director does something that seriously damages the game's reputation and sales they can and will be replaced by management. Something Yoshida is well aware of considering how he got his current position and what happened to his predecessor. And we are back to the fact you haven't proved that there won't be a major backlash for them re-introducing gender-locks.

There is evidence for both sides, it's just the evidence that they will be genderlocked is a bit stronger, such as the way they have handled the official reveal and information of Viera and the reality that developing two dual gendered races is a lot of work and thus less likely to be the road taken (but still possible).

The official reveal were they said they were having to significantly rework the coding for the helmets and footgear to accommodate the Viera and that they were still in the process of doing so? You know, did it ever occur to you the reason they didn't show case the male Viera might be because Fran's armor was the only gear set they had that didn't cause the game to crash when they slapped it on a Viera character model?

Part of that is due to the nature of adding things to the game. This also applies to the Dramaturge, just because he personally never saw any doesn't mean there aren't any there, however it paints a picture to not expect them

So on one hand you admit that the Dramaturge's statement doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any male Viera in Dalmasca but in the next you still say it should be considered as evidence they won't show up?

You just proved my point that there will likely be reasons we are exceptions to being allowed into the woods so the whole argument of "male viera would attack us on sight so they have to be in the game" falls apart.

The plot point we are heading into the Ra'tika Greatwood and your assumption that we will have some exception to the rule about them attacking outsiders while heading into the woods are two very separate things. After all, to make contact and travel with the head of the Ishgardian Heretics, Iceheart, we first had to head into their territory and get attacked by her followers.

Certainly possible, but less likely. It's more likely they try to get our help to fend of the Empire than anything.

So you think they will get into a life and death struggle with the Empire over their homeland, demand our help, take us into their homeland to fight the Empire and somehow we will never once see male Viera, who form the main line of defense of said homeland, while fighting the Empire in the homeland, which is where all male Viera reside lore-wise? And you were the one who called other people in this thread delusional?

[cicatriz313]

I just hope Yoshi wouldn't deprive the entire playbase of something just because he didn't care for it personally. I mean, I have a lot of respect for the guy. I can't see him doing that.

If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

[Lacan]

If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

Announcing a race and only making one of the genders playable is definitely depriving people of something, doesn't matter if it was promised or not.

[redcurrant18]

If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

Lalalalalala I'm sick of hearing people whine about lore when they're about to add a flying car to the game as a mount and all of my neighbors have Carbuncle houses. The player character is unique and can do and be whatever they want. Following the lore to the letter would mean no cat boys, only one white mage, only one dark knight, etc. It's not a usable excuse to justify not including male Viera.

[Gwenorai]

If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

Oh yeah, I just hope the reason behind it isn't something that's going to scratch my head and go 'Well that's lame story writing.' If it's gripping, amazing storytelling which fits into the near-apocalyptic calamity of a whole world just being purged by light - where history has to be remade and fixed in order to avoid it? Then yeah, I expect it to be something dark. Not, 'they're here, they're watching, you just can't see them'. Which always got me really, since WoL in past scenes always seems to notice when they're being watched? I remember those scenes where my character turns around and does little head tilts because he's sure he's being watched.

I can sit back and clap my hands if something insane happens, where all the male Viera unite into this twisted abomination that rampages through the wood - as a last-ditch attempt - to push back their enemies, the ultimate sacrifice for their family. But I'd want to see that. I want to see the action! I wouldn't be happy with just flavour text. I've been waiting since FF12 - since tactics wasn't my thing as a child - to see the mysterious male viera. If they're going down, I wish to see them go down in flames and glory. I want to see the emotion! Heck, I want to be a male Viera and see my kin go through this! That to me is some epic storytelling, drama, emotion and excitement.

[cicatriz313]

Lalalalalala I'm sick of hearing people whine about lore when they're about to add a flying car to the game as a mount and all of my neighbors have Carbuncle houses. The player character is unique and can do and be whatever they want. Following the lore to the letter would mean no cat boys, only one white mage, only one dark knight, etc. It's not a usable excuse to justify not including male Viera.

I... didn't say anything about lore? Are you going crazy now guy?

[Tsumdere]

Oh yeah, I just hope the reason behind it isn't something that's going to scratch my head and go 'Well that's lame story writing.' If it's gripping, amazing storytelling which fits into the near-apocalyptic calamity of a whole world just being purged by light - where history has to be remade and fixed in order to avoid it? Then yeah, I expect it to be something dark. Not, 'they're here, they're watching, you just can't see them'. Which always got me really, since WoL in past scenes always seems to notice when they're being watched? I remember those scenes where my character turns around and does little head tilts because he's sure he's being watched.

I can sit back and clap my hands if something insane happens, where all the male Viera unite into this twisted abomination that rampages through the wood - as a last-ditch attempt - to push back their enemies, the ultimate sacrifice for their family. But I'd want to see that. I want to see the action! I wouldn't be happy with just flavour text. I've been waiting since FF12 - since tactics wasn't my thing as a child - to see the mysterious male viera. If they're going down, I wish to see them go down in flames and glory. I want to see the emotion! Heck, I want to be a male Viera and see my kin go through this! That to me is some epic storytelling, drama, emotion and excitement.

This would be really awesome! It would be absolutely epic and emotional to see your people absolutely razed to the ground and you are their last bastion of hope. It still wouldn't change the fact that the beginning of the game takes place many years before anything would happen to the male Viera, so there really would be no reason for a male Viera not to leave before then...

[Pixiehawk]

Uhm... why are people thinking female only to start, then unlocking male later? Unless unlocking it gives a free Fantasia it would piss off all the Mogshop haters, and a lot of people who dont care currently about the MogShop.

It'll either be locked or not locked, not unlockable through gameplay. I'm personally guessing not locked, but since I'm not planning on more than maybe an alt I dont really care. I just dont understand the unlock during gameplay idea.

Or am I misunderstanding the idea.

[Roda]

Uhm... why are people thinking female only to start, then unlocking male later? Unless unlocking it gives a free Fantasia it would piss off all the Mogshop haters, and a lot of people who dont care currently about the MogShop.

It'll either be locked or not locked, not unlockable through gameplay. I'm personally guessing not locked, but since I'm not planning on more than maybe an alt I dont really care. I just dont understand the unlock during gameplay idea.

Or am I misunderstanding the idea.

I think the "unlock it later" crew are saying they release females, then the players backlash because of course they will, and then se will be like "oh people actually wanted this??? We had no ideaa!!!" or "We couldn't finish this race in time so buy it now and we'll update it later because race releases can be partially release gated like raid releases" and then they finish the race later like they did for male miqo'te, female roegadyn, and female highlander.

[Shippuu]

Ah, in that case your prior statements like are also merely assumptions without anything resembling hard evidence to back them up. Which according to your little wall of text here makes them effectively meaningless and inconsequential.

You're this close to getting it. Assumptions and speculation are by their very nature without proof (that's what assume means afterall). So yes, my assumptions are not necessarily backed up by hard proof. The difference is, when I'm asking for evidence it's when people have made all encompassing statements, not necessarily just assumptions.
For example, when you said the FFXIV devs unlocked the 1.0 genderlocks because they were damaging to the game, you made a definitive statement. I asked for proof because there is a myriad of reasons why they might have done that, instead of one definitive reason you put out there.
This is why I often use words such as likely, possibly, potentially, maybe. etc. etc. Instead of hard language that confirms this or that, I don't say the devs will do X because of Y, only that they may do X because of Y.

Except you haven't provided evidence for any of your statements in any of your posts to anybody in this thread.

Demonstrably false, but ok. I've certainly provided evidence for any hard claims I've made. I've also directed to plenty of evidence that supports my assumptions as well.

You continue to make baseless assumption after baseless assumption, from market shares in China/Korea

Bringing up that FFXIV exists in the Chinese and Korean markets, as a point that the NA/JP/EU communities/playerbase aren't the only ones that matter in factoring into the decisions of the future content implemented into the game is far from baseless assumption.
Does FFXIV exist in a Chinese and Korean market? Yes. Does the communities of these two regions matter when considering what gets added to the game? Yes. Could different things appeal to those different communities that might not appeal to western ones? Yes. So in what way is that assumption unfounded?

to the reasons why Square Enix removed the 1.0 genderlocks,

An assumption based on the fact that they didn't rectify the genderlocks in their prior MMO, FFXI. And that they didn't rectify those genderlocks when they developed FFXIV 1.0. And that a game failing so tremendously that it damaged a 20+ year old brand and them making an unheard of revamp to an MMO would motivate them to go above and beyond and do things they might not have normally considered a priority before but knew it would earn them favor and shine positively on them at a time when they desperately needed it. So again, not an unfounded assumption at all. And again, I'm not saying they only did the gender unlocking because the game failed, but it was certainly a factor into their decision to do it, and even after doing it the director was on record as being still open to the idea of a future gender locked race meaning he hadn't completely written off the idea.

and then turn around demand evidence the minute somebody posts an opinion you dislike.

Once again, I ask for evidence, not demand it (you love to just misattribute things and words to me, huh. How many times do I have to correct you on that). And those requests are when someone has made a claim (not just an assumption) that the devs, yoshida, SE, whoever did or didn't do something or their motivations.

explain how a gender-locked race would boost market shares for Square Enix in China and Korea and provide evidence to back it up. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

I'll do that as soon as you prove how a gender-locked race would hurt market shares currently, with evidence to back it up since that's what your claim was that started this in the first place. You asserted that it "definitely damaged the 1.0 version" (A absolute statement, not an assumption in case you needed that spelled out):

Gender-locked races definitely damaged the 1.0 version of the game enough that one of the first things Yoshida did after taking over the project was remove them. Or have you forgotten that?

And I said you would be hard pressed to find solid evidence backing that up. Just like you'd be hard pressed to find evidence of such a thing significantly damaging any MMO because there's a ton of factors to be had on whether an MMO succeeds or fails and without extensive data and polling it'd be difficult to determine the percentage of that damage could be attributed to genderlocks (if any at all).
You don't get to make an assertion and then try to get around having to back it up when called for proof and try to goad me into providing proof of a counter-claim. Who's the one being weasely now?

And if the director does something that seriously damages the game's reputation and sales they can and will be replaced by management. Something Yoshida is well aware of considering how he got his current position and what happened to his predecessor. And we are back to the fact you haven't proved that there won't be a major backlash for them re-introducing gender-locks.

Yoshida has essentially pulled a miracle with Final Fantasy XIV. He relaunched a complete failure of a game to incredible success that has only grown. He was promoted to the board of directors and is head of the MMO division for SE at this point. He would have to butcher the current game so extremely that it would fail completely once again to be even considered to be removed/step down.
There would certainly be a backlash for this decision, but I'd be hard pressed to ever consider it major, or even damaging to the game. I don't have to prove there won't be a backlash because I've never made the assertion that there wouldn't be.
However, you're the one using language impying this decision (if it even happens) would somehow damage the game so badly that Yoshida would have to be replaced, and that is one wild presumption you have, and dare I use your own words, a baseless assumption.

The official reveal were they said they were having to significantly rework the coding for the helmets and footgear to accommodate the Viera and that they were still in the process of doing so?

Oh good, it's not just me who has words put into their mouth by you. They never said they significantly reworked coding for helmets and footgear, in fact their exact statement was: "We're having to make some changes to systems, such as how helmets work."
Given we don't know the full extent of what changes these are, we cannot say if they're significantly changed or not.

You know, did it ever occur to you the reason they didn't show case the male Viera might be because Fran's armor was the only gear set they had that didn't cause the game to crash when they slapped it on a Viera character model?

Of course male viera still being in development and not ready to show is a possible explanation that's been brought numerous times. However Yoshida has had no problem in the past telling his audience that he cannot show something because it is not ready. He even did exactly that just prior to the Viera announcement about the 8-man raid. It is very telling that for some reason, he chose not to say that at all when he has done so many times in the past. This should be something to consider and is another item in the pile of things that could point to there not being male viera announced.

So on one hand you admit that the Dramaturge's statement doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any male Viera in Dalmasca but in the next you still say it should be considered as evidence they won't show up?

Because it is not hard proof either way. It both confirms male Viera exist, but also paints them in a light that explains why we may never see one in the game. It has never been an absolute declaration that male viera aren't coming, but it absolutely could be a big hint that they aren't, especially when compiled with the big picture of everything else.

The plot point we are heading into the Ra'tika Greatwood and your assumption that we will have some exception to the rule about them attacking outsiders while heading into the woods are two very separate things. After all, to make contact and travel with the head of the Ishgardian Heretics, Iceheart, we first had to head into their territory and get attacked by her followers.

And we know absolutely nothing about why we are heading into the Greatwood. So all of it assumptions. You assuming we will be attacked by male viera is no different than assuming we won't be because we will likely be invitied or some other circumstance that makes not everything hostile to us. If male Viera aren't going to be in the game, than the latter is more plausible, if they are going to be in, then the former will likely happen.

So you think they will get into a life and death struggle with the Empire over their homeland, demand our help, take us into their homeland to fight the Empire and somehow we will never once see male Viera, who form the main line of defense of said homeland, while fighting the Empire in the homeland, which is where all male Viera reside lore-wise? And you were the one who called other people in this thread delusional?

I won't say exactly what kind of struggle we will be involved in within the Greatwood, but yes, it's absolutely possible for them to have us go through the entire area and never see a single male Viera and there's plenty of absolutely valid reasons as to why that may be. For starters, one zone is not the entire area on the map. We go to zones all the time but they are far from being 100% of the land mass. We will likely only be given access to a small part of the overall woods. If we're only involved in one part of the woods, they could easily write in something happening that draws the male viera to a different part we will never go to.
Not unlike past Ivalice games that had players in Viera lands but still never encountering male Viera because they were elsewhere. It's not a hard idea to grasp that there's a myriad of reasons they can write up to explain how we would never see them even when venturing into their lands.