Gender locked race?

[Sehrina]

I'd be very concerned if anyone was trying to objectify someone as young looking as Alphinaud or the equivalent. Especially if they're almost double his age in the real world.

That aside, nobody appears to be stating that there shouldn't be any objectification of the male form. It just so happens that men who are lean or bulky are much more popular than those who are very slender or feminine.

Again, masculinity is a spectrum ranging from classically handsome to ruggedly handsome - Viera men could be anywhere on that spectrum and a lot of people would be happy. Yet if they were to be obese or super skinny, I'd bet a lot of people would turn their nose up at them simply because those aesthetics aren't nearly as popular as some here have convinced themselves.

The traditional mindset: Women are feminine and cute while the men are to be manly and tough. These aesthetics are the most popular; most of us know this full-well, but that doesn't stop some of us, and many others, from potentially liking the opposite. The reality of the situation is that what we get will be designed by what the dev's think will work out best with the community. However, there are people here who are simply hoping that we could maybe get something a little different to satisfy a lesser filled niche. We already have five other races that mostly fill the traditional norms(besides lalafell I suppose), so why not something different?

You mention being disturbed at someone potentially "objectifying" a character as "young looking as Alphinaud". I think you are thinking about this the wrong way. People use Alphinaud as a reference, because we don't really have much else in game to best represent a "smaller and potentially more feminine built male". Just because some may want a race to be built in such a way does not mean they actually want to play as children or underaged characters. Female Miqo'te and Au'ra's youthful appearance and build make some of them almost look like preteens, but that doesn't mean they are or we think of them as such.

Also to people still trying to use Viera lore as an excuse for their males availability or potential appearance... It's a high fantasy game filled with magic; things don't always have to make perfect sense. Look at lalafells or female Au'ra.
3-4 more days to go...

[Gwenorai]

Snip

This is perfectly fine, however, some folks wording does have it edging on the whole 'erm, not sure about that one boss.' I think it comes with the mindset that men look more 'mature' than their female counterparts after puberty; as most boys tend to look like, well, men after puberty - so seeing a childlike male it is pushed along the lines of them being underage or the likes. Yes, there are outliners, there are always outliers in the population. That's why we have ID systems in place. Some men/women look older than they actually are at a specific age, some look younger than what they are. A babyfaced slim and petite male is more than likely going to get IDd as folks will assume they are younger than the minimum threshold for said item/activity. The example with Alphy is that he has the body of a teenage boy in regards to elf standards. No matter what way you look at it, that specific body type in this world has already been established to be that of an underage child of that specific race. To add more onto this; we have seen children of the other races as well, barring Lala and Roe's - all of them are considerably smaller and a lot more childlike; the 'later teens' of those other races (Hyur/Miqote/Aura) have the adult body as elves mature differently than other races and stay in that childlike state longer than usual. Hence why Alphy and his sister are sharing the body type with even younger elves.

The fact that female Miqo'te and Aura - the 'wife' trope can also look like teenagers (some of them probably are, and hopefully at least 16+) is also an issue, but they're there. And it also makes some people uncomfortable. If you consider that to be a 'wrong' then two wrongs certainly don't make a right. Alas, this is a JPN MMO where the age of consent is different - I believe it's 14 with certain rules attached?

I personally don't care for seeing scantily clad females who look like young teens; below 18 etc, I also don't care for scantily clad young men either. And I certainly don't wish to see a young Alphy/Young Link wearing nearly nothing. That's just me. I have no interested in that type of body type.


Of course, the argument of 'Young looking as Alphinaud' and 'Looks like child Link' is also an issue; these two examples are all of those of underage males. I'm not going to say the bulk 'because we don't know the bulk' and what people find attractive is subjective - but I'm sure it can be said with a certain confidence that in regards to attraction - for the average individual - very young men that look to be in their pre-teens are not considered attractive by fully mature adults. Some will find them attractive, of course - Shota exists; I do not agree with Shota.

There's nothing wrong wanting a slim and small 'character' - I imagine folks are looking for a more 'cute' version of 'Bosmer' - Elder Scrolls; wood elves that are petite and lean and spend their times up in the woods/trees and have a somewhat similar lifestyle to Viera. However; that race does not look like children even if they're small and petite - which is acceptable to me. While they are certainly youthful and can be made to look 'young' adultlike they look mature enough to not be questionable. And of course the females look similar to the males - they are both small.

In regards to dimorphism, yes this is possible and may indeed happen. But I don't believe it will be that the males will be cuter than the females. Beautiful, maybe - again that depends on your viewpoint. Small and petite? Perhaps not, but maybe smaller than the females so they're around Hyur height. Yes, folks are looking towards lore in regards to how they look - that's sadly all we have; concept art and the words of a Developer who sadly believes said concept the art was still too cute. While it's certainly possible that he may have changed his mind and thought - 'yes, let's make them even cuter' - it's more likely that what we saw is the minimum in regards to 'cuteness'. That, however, is my opinion.

What I'm getting from here is that folks want male Viera to look beautiful/small and thin - but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Some folks do not want to play as a race that objectively looks like a pubescent. Examples such as Seiryuu and Omega M are fine to make, they - to me do not look like young boys due to their body proportions; they are certainly not 'small' however.

If we go even more in-depth and to step away from examples that may have moral issues attached;


It seems that individuals want 'Short and Thin' - while the lore, and what others seem to want is a mix between Average Height and Weight, Average Weight and Tall or Tall and Thin (If going off the females bodytype.). To confirm; those who want a small petite Viera, is 'Short and Thin' the visual you're going for?




-P.S Apologies if the grammar is messed up. Dyslexia kicks my butt.

[SomeRandomHuman]

There's nothing wrong wanting a slim and small 'character' - I imagine folks are looking for a more 'cute' version of 'Bosmer' - Elder Scrolls; wood elves that are petite and lean and spend their times up in the woods/trees and have a somewhat similar lifestyle to Viera. However; that race does not look like children even if they're small and petite - which is acceptable to me. While they are certainly youthful and can be made to look 'young' adultlike they look mature enough to not be questionable. And of course the females look similar to the males - they are both small.

What I'm getting from here is that folks want male Viera to look beautiful/small and thin - but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Some folks do not want to play as a race that objectively looks like a pubescent. Examples such as Seiryuu and Omega M are fine to make, they - to me do not look like young boys due to their body proportions; they are certainly not 'small' however.

If we go even more in-depth and to step away from examples that may have moral issues attached;


It seems that individuals want 'Short and Thin' - while the lore, and what others seem to want is a mix between Average Height and Weight, Average Weight and Tall or Tall and Thin (If going off the females bodytype.). To confirm; those who want a small petite Viera, is 'Short and Thin' the visual you're going for?

You are correct good sir. Amongst my horribly worded posts and responses I'm glad to see that there are a few people that understand what we're asking for.

[MrKimper]

One more for the road.

[KaijinRhada]

Well then, in between checking this thread in the morning, and looking at it right now this evening, I see it continues to be an emotional and, sometimes, fractious roller-coaster.

Still cheering for all the choices! Always in support of more aesthetics! I just have to distract myself for the next few days while we wait for news. \o/ Just a few more days...

[Duskane]

I get it. With women we can extend our imagination because for you guys sexyness trumps lore. But men? Nah they gotta make the most sense

Where did this even come from i was just filling in lore of male viera you missed out on

[Theodric]

We could very well get something different. A more monstrous looking playable race inspired by the likes of the Ronso would be just that.

[Mansion]

We could very well get something different. A more monstrous looking playable race inspired by the likes of the Ronso would be just that.

And redesign the one hundred kabillion glamour and gear items to fit new bodies? HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT OUR SERVERS?! We don't have the technology for it!

Joke aside, I guess it's easier for Viera (bunny ears aside) because they will use Hyur model and make it a bit taller and slimer, then it's done. While implementing something like Vangaas or Seeqs... it would be a lot of work

[Theodric]

And redesign the one hundred kabillion glamour and gear items to fit new bodies? HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT OUR SERVERS?! We don't have the technology for it!

Joke aside, I guess it's easier for Viera (bunny ears aside) because they will use Hyur model and make it a bit taller and slimer, then it's done. While implementing something like Vangaas or Seeqs... it would be a lot of work

My assumption is that they'd be along the lines of Byakko. More 'bestial' than the other playable races, though not enough to make it require an immense amount of work to have them fit in gear or perform emotes. There's also the potential for them to look pretty good and expressive if they have facial features along his lines. It'd also make sense from a business point of view. A significant number of FFXIV players are in the West. Which means FFXIV's biggest competitors are WoW, GW2 and ESO. All three of those MMO's just so happen to have multiple playable races that are much more than just taller or shorter humans with animal ears slapped on.

I want to stress that I'm not particularly interested in playing a full on beast-man. Yet something along the lines of Byakko? That'd work very nicely for me.

I'd also be fine with Viera men if they're along the lines of the beefier concept art. Though the short, feminine Viera that some here are pushing for? They wouldn't interest me at all and I'm not convinced that is what the 'majority' desire, either.

[xbahax92]

This whole thread turned into "I wish me this race".
Time to chill down and wait for saturday, few more days. No need to destroy each others wishes. SE will do that for you anyway.