Can we remove Tank Stance?

[whiskeybravo]

i said in defiance is the best defensive tank by a mile with is true, DRK and PLD on they respective tank stances can't compete against the amount of mitigation and self healing of defiance kit + regular kit of WAR.

target analysis can be done easily with holmgang or his current kit, what a surprise, you can even take the hit alone if you get the vuln and healers have a lot of healing power to dealt with you HP without any problem, even if you use defiance and inner beast you can minimize the penalty with unchained, so i don't see any really shortcoming with the most ridiculously versatile kit of the game, specially for only 1 fight.

It can target you every time but Holmgang is only available every other Target Analysis. Or if it selects the other tank repeatedly, being up front is not really enough damage to warrant Holmgang usage. For short stacks you are out of range so IB is not an option (well, barring the uptime strat which is complicated in it's own right).

[shao32]

snip

but you can use it for the shake of save CD's when you need it with is the point, and what short stacks? The one's on hello world? You can easily get close the boss and secure a inner beast if you want to.

*Large dungeon trash pulls
*healer(s) are down
*Fresh content
*MT just died
*Enmity reset
*Add phase
*shall I continue?

-On mass pulling I pull with tank stance with is suppose to be up every time you pull something, I grab agro and use my CD's properly since they mitigate a lot of damage, turn it off just a second after and spam aoes everything, it's not hard to do and yeah as a DRK I have it a bit easier with abysal and TBN but I do it all days without causing my healers loose anything.

-healers are down, well except you can save the run somehow at least for Savage is just let's restart bcs it's a waste of time, on dungeons boses well meaby I try it when we got to in to that extreme, on extreme if no one can res the just restart unless we are at 2% or something, all of this depends of the situation and cases that are not supposed to happen in the first place and if it's happen you can save it with different forms without passing by you tank stance, it's you last card.

-fresh content? Not really except you wanna have the first world down of Savage, I progress in every content doing the same as usual and there is no problem at all, in fact I abuse more of my CDs so I can see if I can take it easily or not, I have a lot of options before use tank stance.

-MT died? A provoke and agro combo calls normally a day, if is Savage it's depend but my raid use they tools properly, I can use 2 power slash to get time enough to my partners to use diversion and other skills.

-emity restet, there is only 1 boss this expansion that use that and was neo exdeath, I use tank stance there by force and was awful, that's why we need a rework, reset mechanics and actual tank stances (except for WAR) are unfun, but in resume it's not the norm, not right now at least.

-add phases don't live enough that a few aoes can keep without tank stance, on tsukuyomi I always just unleash and abysal and move alone they die pretty quick, on halicarnasus Savage a bit of the same, if you have a proper ninja even less reasons to use it there.

Everything is about to know how to use you tools properly and you find tank stances are just mere pull tools and nothing more, the JP forums are complaint that tank stances have lost his value.

I'm the first one that say we need a rework on tank stances, give us reasons to use it and stay on it, or just delete it all together and we use our agro combos more bcs are in the same situation.

Pd: no I din't look at fflogs, I don't care much about that web, it's just my normal strat for everything, tank stance grab something and turn it off until it dies, I still have to find something that force me to stay more than the 5 seconds it's take me to finish my agro combo with any tank.

[whiskeybravo]

but you can use it for the shake of save CD's when you need it with is the point, and what short stacks? The one's on hello world? You can easily get close the boss and secure a inner beast if you want to.

Use what for shake? And no, the party has to adjust for tank to be in melee range, it's not just a matter of "if you want to". Don't see why you have such a problem accepting the fact that War is a bit gimped in o12s, I was getting told that before we even started progging the fight 3-4 months ago.

[shao32]

Use what for shake? And no, the party has to adjust for tank to be in melee range, it's not just a matter of "if you want to". Don't see why you have such a problem accepting the fact that War is a bit gimped in o12s, I was getting told that before we even started progging the fight 3-4 months ago.

I don't consider this is the place to discuss this, but we'll, as my experience with my co-tank with is WAR we don't see any of the problems you are saying in any part of the fight, there is a plenty time and space to land a inner beast if you need it, I don't see the whole party have to adjust on hello world unless you are doing some crazy positionating strat, I even revised some of the down vids and guides with WAR pov and in all of then they can reach the boss just fine, except when they have to place the huge aoe and that one don't do much damage.

[whiskeybravo]

I don't consider this is the place to discuss this, but we'll, as my experience with my co-tank with is WAR we don't see any of the problems you are saying in any part of the fight, there is a plenty time and space to land a inner beast if you need it, I don't see the whole party have to adjust on hello world unless you are doing some crazy positionating strat, I even revised some of the down vids and guides with WAR pov and in all of then they can reach the boss just fine, except when they have to place the huge aoe and that one don't do much damage.

Well, this is a discussion about tank stance, so..

Nope, just the standard unreal strat. If you learn it a different way then perhaps there is no adjustment needed, but the standard strat - yes, the party will have to adjust in some way so they don't get clipped by the aoe. But all that's beside the point. As I mentioned, the main factor is DRK and PLD do not have to switch to tank stance to mitigate it since they always have access to Sheltron or TBN. I'm also not discounting the possibility of a better CD rotation, but it seemed best to me to rotate vengeance and rampart on the scripted busters since they're consistently timed, and save defiance/IB for the random target busters. (defiance alone is *enough* to survive - with equilibrium to help get back up - but IB helps if you can). It's just a matter of not wanting to completely shaft my healers. But to each his own.

[shao32]

Well, this is a discussion about tank stance, so..

Nope, just the standard unreal strat. If you learn it a different way then perhaps there is no adjustment needed, but the standard strat - yes, the party will have to adjust in some way so they don't get clipped by the aoe. But all that's beside the point. As I mentioned, the main factor is DRK and PLD do not have to switch to tank stance to mitigate it since they always have access to Sheltron or TBN. I'm also not discounting the possibility of a better CD rotation, but it seemed best to me to rotate vengeance and rampart on the scripted busters since they're consistently timed, and save defiance/IB for the random target busters. (defiance alone is *enough* to survive - with equilibrium to help get back up - but IB helps if you can). It's just a matter of not wanting to completely shaft my healers. But to each his own.

well then is more a problem of you data center duty finder more that WAR problems against the fight, and as you say since you are punished by that strat and you can't reach the boss you lose nothing by switching to defiance a second since when you can hit the boss again you will have deliverance ready so you really have options, about the other is you own preference and its ok i don't say nothing against that but dosen't mean there are other ways more effective to dealt with it, you just have to adjust more but thats what we do all.

[whiskeybravo]

well then is more a problem of you data center duty finder more that WAR problems against the fight, and as you say since you are punished by that strat and you can't reach the boss you lose nothing by switching to defiance a second since when you can hit the boss again you will have deliverance ready so you really have options, about the other is you own preference and its ok i don't say nothing against that but dosen't mean there are other ways more effective to dealt with it, you just have to adjust more but thats what we do all.

Yea, we've cleared 5 times but still a bit sketchy imo so I play it safe more often than not. I suppose there is a 6-second window before short stack explodes so it may be possible to run in and back out before it explodes if I really wanted to get IB up.