So people are defending the msq dc exploit

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Are...Are you saying we should force people to skip cutscenes? Because that is kinda what it sounds like, though I may be reading it wrong.

You are. "We" should let people be able to skip cutscenes. If SE doesn't want to fix the problem permanently, it's not going to be veterans that have subbed the game for many months already the ones screwed over. PF exists. FCs exist. Have people make use of them.
And inb4 "but sprouts don't know about PF" - they can learn. No one gets to 70 and learns to use PF by magic. Any time is a good time to learn about it, and running Castrum/Prae with people willing to let them just do that is a good use of the PF.

Feel free to say I don't care about sprouts. I've even took a 3-4 of them from my FC to Castrum and Prae so they could freely watch the cutscenes, because they asked for help. Kinda the same principle besides doing it through PF

[Derio]

Should have been changed to a solo instance a long time ago. At this point they need to make adjustments to the content and make it soloable at level. The amount of development time into forcing the cutscenes and upping the rewards, etc could be used to just make it a soloable experience.

[Kuroka]

The next genius change they are going to come up with is to remove you from the group if you disconnect in main scenario roulette and give you a penalty.

Yes pls. do that there and on new stuff for a month, so ppl reconsider to chicken out on trials etc. further id enforce the min ilvl for the highes trial/dungeon you can get at your level so you cant cheat to easy trials.

A particularly vindictive suggestion.

Give back the ability to skip cutscenes, but if there is a new player in the instance, and that player skips any of the cutscenes, nobody gets any rewards.
Grats on wasting your time, no gil or tomes or anything else for you.

And if a first timer get's vote kicked out, everyone who voted yes to the kick ALSO get kicked, as well as receive a 2 hour penalty instead of the normal 30 minute one.
Or just end the whole instance as if a Vote Abandon had passed, then hand out penalties to those who voted yes, while the newbie and those who voted no are able to reque instantly.

Like i said, vindictive as hell, but nothing less than the community deserves.

I like you, lol.

I myself waited like 2 weeks to get a full party for it and watch the CS and still fight too and it makes me sad as i even had ppl creating an twing and redo all the story as they felt forced to skip all CS and rush to the endgame. No matter how you turn it, in the end the first timer who wanna se the story outweight those who just want some quick exp/tome... you got plenty ways for that, do some palace or HoH runs, many things even hunts work, but theres only ONE first time....

[Freyt]

IMO

One month ban after having fixed the loophole.

[Keddera_StormMoon]

Are my post counts back? Good.

And grats on saying you were a rookie not very long ago. Guess what - so were all of us at one point or another. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the devs put rewards in there to incentivize vets into actually spending the time of day to help new players get through it. But let's take this to its logical conclusion, hm? What if vets just stopped running MSQ roulette altogether. Like, all of them. In this scenario, vets are anybody who has cleared both dungeons. I'd imagine that this would significantly increase queue times - maybe perhaps back to pre-Raid Roulette levels, maybe even longer. Maybe not immediately, but it will eventually happen.

Hey, thanks for pointing out exactly WHY our viewpoints differ. I was in that thing for the first time very recently - so the memory is fresh. Whereas it's been a very long time since you did it for the first time - so to be blunt - you've forgotten. It's not a diss on you - that's just how the human mind is.

I'm just tired of vets appearing to not give a damn for the new people behind us. That sort of attitude is why SE put this heavy-handed "solution" in place to begin with. I don't blame them for not wanting to take out the cutscenes completely - the story and how it's presented is one of the things that sets this MMO apart from it's relevant competition.

Do I want people to stop doing the MSQ? Well, nobody wants that. But I start to wonder if that might be the only way to get SE to get off their hands and rework the thing.

What I do want to see is people who lack consideration to stay away from the damned thing. If your there for the shinies and care little about the experience of those who are there for the first time; I say as one who went through it recently as a newbie that we'd frankly wish you'd either pack your attitude at the dungeon entrance or not bother at all.

[kikix12]

One month ban after having fixed the loophole.

It's neither a loophole nor something they can really ban for (if they want to be remotely professional). Alt+F4 is a fundamental system function, it's not a game exploit. Both bugs and exploits NEED to interact with the actual code of a program either changing it, or it running in an unintended way. Turning the code off is not that. A program that does not allow that is pretty much a virus, or at the very least, critically bugged. A game that does not account for that in its design is badly programmed.

Piling horrible choice to fix a horrible choice meant to fix a horrible choice is a straight way to trouble for a company. They should finally suck it up and deal with something related to this issue with some degree of competence.

In case of this cutscene-skipping method, the ONLY option they have to enforce it competently is for the cutscene to continue running for every player, even if they disconnected. If they'd disconnect 1 minute into a 5 minute cutscene and come back after 3th minute, they'd load into the 3th minute of the cutscene...seeing the exact same thing as if they didn't disconnect. I repeat, that is the only proper solution that does not involve actually fixing the problem.

[Freyt]

It's neither a loophole nor something they can really ban for (if they want to be remotely professional). Alt+F4 is a fundamental system function, it's not a game exploit. Both bugs and exploits NEED to interact with the actual code of a program either changing it, or it running in an unintended way. Turning the code off is not that. A program that does not allow that is pretty much a virus, or at the very least, critically bugged. A game that does not account for that in its design is badly programmed.

Piling horrible choice to fix a horrible choice meant to fix a horrible choice is a straight way to trouble for a company. They should finally suck it up and deal with something related to this issue with some degree of competence.

In case of this cutscene-skipping method, the ONLY option they have to enforce it competently is for the cutscene to continue running for every player, even if they disconnected. If they'd disconnect 1 minute into a 5 minute cutscene and come back after 3th minute, they'd load into the 3th minute of the cutscene...seeing the exact same thing as if they didn't disconnect. I repeat, that is the only proper solution that does not involve actually fixing the problem.

Not necessary. Just freeze the players motion until everyone has finished the cutscene.

[KaivaC]

Hey, thanks for pointing out exactly WHY our viewpoints differ. I was in that thing for the first time very recently - so the memory is fresh. Whereas it's been a very long time since you did it for the first time - so to be blunt - you've forgotten. It's not a diss on you - that's just how the human mind is.

I'm just tired of vets appearing to not give a damn for the new people behind us. That sort of attitude is why SE put this heavy-handed "solution" in place to begin with. I don't blame them for not wanting to take out the cutscenes completely - the story and how it's presented is one of the things that sets this MMO apart from it's relevant competition.

Do I want people to stop doing the MSQ? Well, nobody wants that. But I start to wonder if that might be the only way to get SE to get off their hands and rework the thing.

What I do want to see is people who lack consideration to stay away from the damned thing. If your there for the shinies and care little about the experience of those who are there for the first time; I say as one who went through it recently as a newbie that we'd frankly wish you'd either pack your attitude at the dungeon entrance or not bother at all.

Going by my Join Date? I mean, it's good in theory...'cept I recently made a new main. September as a matter of fact, if I recall correctly. And I went through the whole grind.

A lot of vets would love to help new players. There was a time when people did put up PFs solely for letting new players join and enjoy the cutscenes without having to worry about people rushing ahead. Those days are behind us with the unskippable cutscenes. The glaring flaw in your argument is that if more vets did stop queuing up for it, you'd have a longer waiting queue. I don't think you were here before we even got a raid roulette, but back then, queuing up for the Alex normal raids was a pain in the ass because of wait times. That would also mean that without vets, the queue is highly dependent on either players getting FC help, asking for help in the PF, or hoping that there were enough sprouts that happened to be at that point in the storyline to even be able to queue for one of those two dungeons.

You seem to have this opinion that vets just simply don't care about sprouts, which couldn't be further from the truth. You do have people that don't give a rat's arse about sprouts, yes. But there are plenty of people in the game, in this forum even, that would go out of their way to help a sprout for something. That doesn't mean that some of us want to sit in hour-long instances repeatedly. There used to be options around the MSQ roulettes. The devs simply took those options away and forced one single route in an incredibly heavy handed way. Again, it was probably a necessary evil because it seems like they can't exactly separate how these instances play out in the PF and the DF.

And this whole 'we' thing...I can tell you now that there are plenty of sprouts who don't give a damn about cutscenes, so this whole 'we' thing is more like you stating a personal opinion without the backing of these 'we' that you refer to. Because I can promise you that if you get a sprout who says they agree with you, I can find a sprout who hated the constant cutscenes in the MSQ roulette.

I've been an advocate for these duties becoming solo ventures. Now the devs have a golden opportunity to inject a little starter boost into their Trust System and roll those two dungeons into that.

[kikix12]

Not necessary. Just freeze the players motion until everyone has finished the cutscene.

Doesn't work. There are cutscenes that are in the middle of battle. If a player could end up skipping the cutscene somehow but not move, what...you let them die?!

Offering broken solutions to fix a broken solution doesn't help. Especially when you offer them as an alternative to an actual solution that achieves exactly what it's meant to do. Make everyone see the cutscenes throughout their length and no second longer/less.

[Metalwrath]

The post I originally wanted to comment on before the lockout. I just love how people point out some obvious flaws and stand by how bad a particular XIV system is, and automatically invites labels of 'self-entitled' and 'contributing to toxicity'. Are you serious right now? Have you played with anybody in this thread through the MSQ to even back up that opinion? Maybe all of us so-called "self-entitled" people don't even engage in that type of behavior. Maybe some of us don't even run ahead of sprouts just so they don't get lost or left behind. But you don't know that, do you? Nah...much easier to just resort to calling out people whom you've probably never played with or experienced an MSQ run with. Far easier to group in those toxic players with those that don't align with an opinion of yours, hm?

The fact of the matter is that if the devs didn't want vets to run the place, they wouldn't have increased the rewards in the fashion that they have. Some have argued that this was a necessary evil simply because their spaghetti code may not allow them to separate the whole cutscene issue between the DF, PF, and the Unending Journey. Still doesn't mean that people simply don't like it. A lot of us want to help the new players - but being forced to sit through long cutscenes (and being told to not run it if you don't like it) just sounds incredibly silly.



Are my post counts back? Good.

And grats on saying you were a rookie not very long ago. Guess what - so were all of us at one point or another. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the devs put rewards in there to incentivize vets into actually spending the time of day to help new players get through it. But let's take this to its logical conclusion, hm? What if vets just stopped running MSQ roulette altogether. Like, all of them. In this scenario, vets are anybody who has cleared both dungeons. I'd imagine that this would significantly increase queue times - maybe perhaps back to pre-Raid Roulette levels, maybe even longer. Maybe not immediately, but it will eventually happen.

Love how you're grandstanding here. "Dictate the terms of everything of an MMO". No, it's just pointing out a very obvious flaw in a dumb solution.

The answer to what you are asking is actually in the post you quoted.
Maybe dont just skim peoples posts and then quote once you find a line of text to attack?
Honestly its the same posters everytime defending the same bad habits and toxicity.