So people are defending the msq dc exploit

[Kurando]

I'm not sure there is any way for the restriction to be lifted specifically for the PF, because even if you pre-form you are still queueing through the Duty Finder and that's where the two MSQ duties are coded to play the cutscenes regardless of how it is entered (whether individually or the roulette). Really the system should just recognise who has cleared the content or not on entry, (in the same way that high end raids check for the chest count of clears for the week), and if everyone has cleared already then scenes can be skipped but with less of a reward, however if even one party member is new then the scenes have to be played but there is increased reward at the end for seeing it through.

I think the current rewards are fine for what they are, as it's otherwise a completely optional roulette for most players that do this so it's really down to the person on whether they want to commit to the long duration of it or not.

[VirusChris]

What is this exploit? This is the first I'm hearing of it.
What are people doing?

[Iscah]

the devs overshot their retooling on MSQ (seriously, why are unskippable cutscenes in the PF...that design choice is somehow even dumber than restricting the DF queues)

the devs being boneheaded and not thinking their decision all the way through

You're assuming that they deliberately chose against (or forgot to consider) making the cutscenes skippable in some circumstances, but I think it's more likely that they can't.

When the unskippable cutscenes were brought in, they also affected the playback in the Unending Journey cutscene viewer.

That suggests to me that the game only has one version of the cutscene stored, probably with the "do not allow skipping" instruction unalterably programmed into it, and it plays the same way regardless of how you access it.

I think it's quite possible that they would have liked to only enforce the cutscenes when playing via DF, and give players a choice in other circumstances - but their own (infamously clunky) system doesn't allow for that to be a variable option.

This may literally be the only way within their pre-existing framework that they can make it be unskippable in any form.

The fact that the devs haven't acknowledged that maybe they overshot it is a problem as well.

It seems to me that the increased reward is the acknowledgement that they have (had to be) heavy-handed in implementing the forced cutscenes. They are compensating you for the time you are agreeing to spend helping others through it.



I've said in other topics about this issue - in an ideal world where every player was willing to wait until the one person watching the cutscenes was finished, instead of abandoning them and continuing to speed run, there would have been no need to enforce the unskippable cutscenes. Probably 95% of roulette runs would be with other veteran players who also skip and you can all rush through together. Occasionally, by luck of the roulette, you get a newcomer and have to wait for them - and you are free to get out of the cutscene and organise your inventory or whatever.

Because people refused to play this way and voluntarily wait some of the time, the devs decided it was necessary to force them to wait all of the time.



I agree it will be ideal if the trust system can easily be set up to run this dungeon for a first-time experience, hopefully without requiring training up beforehand.

[TheGrimace]

What is this exploit? This is the first I'm hearing of it.
What are people doing?

You can skip the cutscenes by forcing a disconnect on your PC or PS4. I feel like that's a lot of effort to go through to save a negligible amount of time in MSQ Rou, but some people hate MSQ Rou enough to do it frequently.

[Fynlar]

I'd defend it too. It was a stupid change and I will never defend unskippable cutscenes forced on the player.

Harassing other people for not doing it though, is where I draw the line. That isn't cool.

[Alien_Gamer]

You're assuming that they deliberately chose against (or forgot to consider) making the cutscenes skippable in some circumstances, but I think it's more likely that they can't.

When the unskippable cutscenes were brought in, they also affected the playback in the Unending Journey cutscene viewer.

That suggests to me that the game only has one version of the cutscene stored, probably with the "do not allow skipping" instruction unalterably programmed into it, and it plays the same way regardless of how you access it.

I think it's quite possible that they would have liked to only enforce the cutscenes when playing via DF, and give players a choice in other circumstances - but their own (infamously clunky) system doesn't allow for that to be a variable option.

This may literally be the only way within their pre-existing framework that they can make it be unskippable in any form.

This is correct. The next live letter after they implemented this Yoshi spoke about the unskippable scenes in the Unending Journey and he said they can't put in multiple versions of the same cutscene to allow for skippable cutscenes under certain circumstances. Its an all or nothing decision. Of course, he also stated they didn't want to do this but felt it was better for the newer players experience to do it this way. For something that was the capstone of the story up to that point, it was important for players to see it as it was meant to be seen and that wasn't possible with the way the veteran players treated the roulette.

I think Yoshi was going to be damned no matter what he decided to do with the MSQ so he went with the simplest solution of making the cutscenes unskippable. Personally I'm not sure he was wrong in that decision.

[BillyKaplan]

Personally I'm not sure he was wrong in that decision.

History shows that he was, however. It took them several years to get around to dealing with that problem, and this is what they ended up offering? I agree it was likely the simplest solution they could've come up with but there are a lot of new players - the intended demographic - who aren't happy with the change either. Which is something that could've been foreseen as it is a very violent, intrusive change as far as user interface goes, especially since no other cutscenes before or after do that.

[KaivaC]

History shows that he was, however. It took them several years to get around to dealing with that problem, and this is what they ended up offering? I agree it was likely the simplest solution they could've come up with but there are a lot of new players - the intended demographic - who aren't happy with the change either. Which is something that could've been foreseen as it is a very violent, intrusive change as far as user interface goes, especially since no other cutscenes before or after do that.

I would like to hope that the trust system will tie into how the MSQ roulette is handled. At this point, it's just an irritating system that the devs really can't fix without alienating some part of the player base and screwing over someone.

You're assuming that they deliberately chose against (or forgot to consider) making the cutscenes skippable in some circumstances, but I think it's more likely that they can't.

When the unskippable cutscenes were brought in, they also affected the playback in the Unending Journey cutscene viewer.

That suggests to me that the game only has one version of the cutscene stored, probably with the "do not allow skipping" instruction unalterably programmed into it, and it plays the same way regardless of how you access it.

I think it's quite possible that they would have liked to only enforce the cutscenes when playing via DF, and give players a choice in other circumstances - but their own (infamously clunky) system doesn't allow for that to be a variable option.

This may literally be the only way within their pre-existing framework that they can make it be unskippable in any form.

If the system was so clusterfuckery that they couldn't fix it to the point where it wasn't able to be fixed through the PF either, I'd have liked the devs to at least say that they are working on something better. Instead, when the changes were made, it came off as "this is how it's going to be, and that's it".

The system is not working as intended, no matter how anybody tries to spin it because it's going to inconvenience somebody along the way. ARR is already enough of a brutal slog - sitting in cutscenes for about 2 hours between two dungeons...well, there's only so much that can be done before vets start getting annoyed by having to do it, no matter how much incentives they throw out or how helpful players want to be towards our new sprouts.

It seems to me that the increased reward is the acknowledgement that they have (had to be) heavy-handed in implementing the forced cutscenes. They are compensating you for the time you are agreeing to spend helping others through it.



I've said in other topics about this issue - in an ideal world where every player was willing to wait until the one person watching the cutscenes was finished, instead of abandoning them and continuing to speed run, there would have been no need to enforce the unskippable cutscenes. Probably 95% of roulette runs would be with other veteran players who also skip and you can all rush through together. Occasionally, by luck of the roulette, you get a newcomer and have to wait for them - and you are free to get out of the cutscene and organise your inventory or whatever.

Because people refused to play this way and voluntarily wait some of the time, the devs decided it was necessary to force them to wait all of the time.



I agree it will be ideal if the trust system can easily be set up to run this dungeon for a first-time experience, hopefully without requiring training up beforehand.

To be honest, expecting players to wait through the DF is a wishful thought at best. Some wanted to wait, sure, but there were a lot of people who wanted to just get in and out. A change is needed. It's not all that surprising that people have started to resort to using an exploit when they are running these long dungeons for the umpteenth time. How many players are going to be willing to wait when Shadowbringers comes out and everybody is focused on going through that content while sprouts are coming up through ARR?

I expect there are going to be a lot of waiting sprouts.

[jameseoakes]

You can skip the cutscenes by forcing a disconnect on your PC or PS4. I feel like that's a lot of effort to go through to save a negligible amount of time in MSQ Rou, but some people hate MSQ Rou enough to do it frequently.

Why do people run it if they hate it so much?

[BillyKaplan]

I would like to hope that the trust system will tie into how the MSQ roulette is handled.

Same, though I hope it won't be a roulette anymore. Arguably the AI needed to make those things solo instances already exists, between NPCs and the mechanics they handled in the 4.1 Lakshmi fight, but I do think they'd need to tweak the dungeons a bit to let NPCs run it, so the earliest we'll see that in is 5.0.

At this point, it's just an irritating system that the devs really can't fix without alienating some part of the player base and screwing over someone.

Honestly the only downside I can think of with making this not a roulette is exp and tomes handicap. Which I don't think people will be upset over for long, especially given how a lot of people don't even run that roulette in the first place, least of all with the cutscene changes.

Why do people run it if they hate it so much?

Experience and tomes. It's supposedly a lucrative roulette.