Change to the ban system.

[BillyKaplan]

I have an FC mate who found himself in a comparable situation.

What I find to be the most comparable here is that what your friend did was actually reportable. I sympathize with their situation as I've spent the most of last night carrying O12 myself on my healer. But no amount of abuse directed at you is justification for you performing it yourself. Your friend should've kept their mouth shut and took it, or left the instance. Report the lot of them at the end either way. But instead, they "snapped and lashed out". They brought this on themselves, similar to what OP did.

it's only okay when THEY do it!

I mean, your friend would've had to report them for anything to be done to them, and it doesn't seem like they did, so I don't understand what you're complaining about here. Both sides were in the wrong, one simply bothered to file that harassment report.

It would be a nice way to reward someone who is trying to improve their behavior.

I think the problem here is that there's no way of telling apart those who are improving, and those who simply didn't get caught. Oftentimes the difference between a ban and not-a-ban is someone bothering to file a report, and making it a proper one. So during that year, our offender could've still kept at it, but somehow got lucky enough and wasn't reported. A lot of stories end up in the DF thread instead of the GM's inbox, for instance, a lot of people aren't sure if it's reportable or are lied to, don't know how to file a report, etc.

[Penthea]

I think the problem here is that there's no way of telling apart those who are improving, and those who simply didn't get caught. Oftentimes the difference between a ban and not-a-ban is someone bothering to file a report, and making it a proper one. So during that year, our offender could've still kept at it, but somehow got lucky enough and wasn't reported. A lot of stories end up in the DF thread instead of the GM's inbox, for instance, a lot of people aren't sure if it's reportable or are lied to, don't know how to file a report, etc.

While this is true, it's actually not unheard of for people to have made successful appeals for bans and strikes based on long periods of good behaviour, or so much time has passed that it can be argued that the individual has since grown up.

Successful mmos stick around for a very long time. Already a lot of people who were teenagers when they started playing FFXIV are adults now. Kids do stupid things, but kids also grow up. If an adult wants to be a paying customer again SE are better off giving them the benefit of the doubt and taking their money, rather than assume people can't change or mature.

As for people on their last legs on their account wanting to get strikes removed, while a long period of time with good behaviour could actually be simply not getting reported, again it's in SE's interest to take their money if they feel a sufficient amount of trouble-free time has passed.

That being said I would assume the accounts in both cases would be flagged internally in case the person is repeatedly reported again.

Of course all this also heavily weighs on WHY a person is reported. If it's because they're very rude well that's not a very serious offence in the grand scheme of things. But if the reports were relating to things such as inappropriate behaviour towards a minor well then they're never getting their account back.

[BillyKaplan]

While this is true, it's actually not unheard of for people to have made successful appeals for bans and strikes based on long periods of good behaviour, or so much time has passed that it can be argued that the individual has since grown up.

I will concede all you said, but think it shouldn't be an automated process so much as something the GMs should take into account when deciding on punishment. Like you said, anything involving minors shouldn't get that sort of treatment at all, for instance.
And there would be a trade-off. An offense after a year, you get a repeat of the easier punishment instead of the harsher punishment, but if they repeat the offense again after a certain period, it actually bounces the penalty up because it shows your period of good behavior might've been a fluke or lack of reports more so than an honest attempt to do better.

[Penthea]

And there would be a trade-off. An offense after a year, you get a repeat of the easier punishment instead of the harsher punishment, but if they repeat the offense again after a certain period, it actually bounces the penalty up because it shows your period of good behavior might've been a fluke or lack of reports more so than an honest attempt to do better.

Yea you would never get a "clean slate" so to speak. Your account would permanently be flagged as having been troublesome at some point.

but think it shouldn't be an automated process so much as something the GMs should take into account when deciding on punishment

Oh god no. Something like this needs to be handled by a person. Completely agree.

[kikix12]

That doesn't work. There are point systems for dangerous driving in certain countries where if you get X points you lose your drivers license. If you do NOT get any points for some time, some of those points are rubbed off.

So, what happens?! Certainly not a sudden change of heart and realization that going 120 through town center is dangerous. People just wait for their points to disappear and then fill em right back up shortly after...because they never changed. They just wanted to avoid having to go through the process of getting the drivers license again.

And repeat criminals that are caught and fined/jailed?! If someone repeated some crime once, they are very likely to repeat it for years to come if given the opportunity. Some people really do commit crimes out of desperation and they end at "once". But those that commit crimes more than once either WANT to commit crimes (and only feel disgruntled they got caught) or cannot control themselves...And I can tell you that your victim won't feel any better finding out you assaulted/robbed or killed them just because you couldn't control yourself due to ailment of some sort.


The system is fine. So long as people don't get strikes for false charges, there is no need to remove them, be it "soft removal" or "hard removal" from the record. That's why there is little problem with bans in game (they actually do care to investigate and consider something), but there is a problem on the forums (you can be banned on forum for being reported more often than for doing something offensive, it seems).