Please stop making Eureka

[Enla]

Neither was Eureka.

If it wasn't made to cater to the majority of the fanbase nowhere near as much money would have been put into it as there has been. They wouldn't have stuck the relic /and/ job glamour on top of mounts, emotes, and more if they didn't intend for this to be a huge success for the majority of the fanbase. With the time, care, and money being put into it you really can't call it a niche system that was only made to satisfy some to the detriment of others. There are simply too many cattle prods and carrots on a stick trying to entice the playerbase into the content for that to be the case.

Contrast that with Ultimate and even Heaven on High, both of which have highly reused assets with a couple minor tweaks. Those two pieces of content are clearly not meant for everyone and the reused and reskinned nature of both show that in spades, though more for Ultimate than HoH. They're there as options to supplement the rest of the gameplay. There's barely any new system at work. Hardly any new monsters. HoH straight up uses PoTD's system with barely any tweaks, and thus was likely very low cost to make.

Eureka on the other hand had to be built from the ground up. As it uses a fair few brand new model and texture assets, on top of entirely new battle systems and leveling systems that are separate from and need to be balanced against the rest of the game. Instead of small little, copy and pasted boxed zones or a single boss arena we're given two huge sweeping maps to run around in. New magic systems and ways to gain items. I could go on but the ultimate point is that all of this costs a /lot/ of money. Far more than any sane developer would put into a piece of content that wasn't meant to appeal to the majority of players. The issue here however is that what they thought the players should want and what the vast majority actually want are two entirely different things. The same thing happened twice with Diadem and instead of recognizing the lost costs involved and revamping future pieces of Eureka to reflect the currently niche interest, they keep doubling down and trying to fix the already broken system.

I don't think it's unreasonable to wish all that money and time went towards other things. There are ways to give the people who enjoy Eureka a chance to play something like it without sacrificing content for the rest of the game because the developers are convinced that the /fifth/ time will be the charm.

[BillyKaplan]

Guys, I figured it out. Eureka is a trap for RMT bots. That's why everything is market enabled. Because absolutely no one else would set foot in there, so it's a goldmine to people selling gil and therefore a honeypot!

[Magic-Mal]

One of the biggest problems is all the people who say they hate Eureka but "only do it for the relic/hair/glamour" then complain non-stop about Eureka.

Don't do Eureka just for some item or hairstyle. That makes you a number on Eureka's Participation records, showing Yoshi that "People are playing this!" Just don't play it at all.

In a way, those who unhappily play Eureka are part of the problem simply because they help bump participation numbers.

[InkstainedGwyn]

Oh, trust me. I share your concerns. I’ve stockpiled farming Ex mounts to have something to do after I finish Alphascape and clear UCoB because I decided when Pagos released that I wasn’t going to participate in Eureka or the Relic anymore this expansion. But it is astounding how much they continue to shove in there in a vain hope people will suddenly love the content.

My concern for FFXIV has grown a lot since Pagos released, and if 5.0 brings another Relic with another Diadem reskin and more copy-paste content, I’ve also considered moving on to another game. Even if they come out with awesome Savage fights and awesome Ultimate fights, because I want something more to do. Raiding isn’t all there is, and it isn’t all I’ve enjoyed in FFXIV. Up until now, at least.

I'll be legit, I don't get mad about a lot of the same content-related stuff that seems to upset other folks - I was fine with the same old "1-2 dungeons, some MSQ, something randomly interesting like a beast tribe or HoH or Enclave, some PVP, etc". I even enjoyed Diadem as something to pass the time occasionally, because I wasn't being expected to go in there all the time. Not saying I don't see why other people are bored/tired/upset - I get that - but I'm one of those annoying "nah, I'm chill with the game" folks. I don't mind predictable because I enjoy what is there.

But this is just... at this rate, everything's going to be locked behind something that was supposed to be only a part/niche element of the game, and it's a mind-bogglingly terrible choice. In HW, even though I'd gotten to 60 (and started on my WHM staff), I barely heard about half of the relic changes - I wasn't on those stages of the quest, and everything I wanted to do was unrelated to what I wanted (quests, beast tribes, crafting, etc). Here, you can't help but "hear/know about the relic" because if you want anything, it's going to be locked in the same jumbled mess.

I'm repeating myself now, and I know it's because I'm actually angry at the moment, so I should probably close the forums down and take a break tonight from the game. But for the first time, I actually find myself thinking, "maybe XIV does need a new development team". What's the whole 5.0 expansion going to be called, "Epiphany: Not Eureka, We Promise"? Instead of gating the endgame behind the MSQ they'll gate the MSQ behind Eureka, and you'll have to have gotten to 75 before you can start on the first MSQ quest.

[Schan]

I know someone mentioned Glamours... the thing is with Glamours and some other content we see room for improvement.

I don't really see that for Eureka. Sure they could add it dailies but that would be sort of like beast tribe dailies. The base gameplay is still boring. You sit there slapping mobs, hoping that nothing 2 levels above you aggros your bum until the fate spawns and cash in. They're not even smart mobs. Furthermore closest to dailies is the challenge log (which are basically weeklies). It's even more frustrating to me when I realize that I lost extra content that i enjoy because of the sheer amount of resources/ money pumped into Eureka so I understand why they are pushing it so hard. It's not easy having to explain to your boss you pumped a ton of money into a complete failure.

I'm sure a there were a couple of people who enjoyed bits of 1.0. Still doesn't mean it wasn't a failure. Please cut your loses and nuke it like you did FFXIV 1.0. Just stop. I do not want an eureka reskin in 5.0.

edit: I actually enjoyed Diadem. This does NOT mean i want a Diadem reskin in 5.0 either.

[Aster_E]

My concern for FFXIV has grown a lot since Pagos released, and if 5.0 brings another Relic with another Diadem reskin and more copy-paste content, I’ve also considered moving on to another game. Even if they come out with awesome Savage fights and awesome Ultimate fights, because I want something more to do. Raiding isn’t all there is, and it isn’t all I’ve enjoyed in FFXIV. Up until now, at least.

I just checked to see if "City of Titans" is ready to go yet (doesn't look it, still), because, for me, it would be fitting if I left another online FF for a spiritual successor to the game that I left XI for, more than twelve years ago.

The irony here is that I even considered giving FFXI another chance, but the answer to that is still a big, fat no for me due to XI's gameplay not being to my liking, and also it would be a bit dumb to refuse to give SE money for XIV only to give money on something I like even less.

[Nariel]

One of the biggest problems is all the people who say they hate Eureka but "only do it for the relic/hair/glamour" then complain non-stop about Eureka.

Don't do Eureka just for some item or hairstyle. That makes you a number on Eureka's Participation records, showing Yoshi that "People are playing this!" Just don't play it at all.

In a way, those who unhappily play Eureka are part of the problem simply because they help bump participation numbers.

What if people value those thing higher than the pain in the ass Eureka is ? What choice do they have ? Do they really have to forget about what make them stay subscribe just because Eureka is bad ? I value my BRD relic so much for glamour reason and collection enough for me to endure it and release my hate for it where it belong in the saltiest way I can find beceause as a Lalafell I'm entitled to be mean and cute.

[BillyKaplan]

What if people value those thing higher than the pain in the ass Eureka is ? What choice do they have ? Do they really have to forget about what make them stay subscribe just because Eureka is bad ? I value my BRD relic so much for glamour reason and collection enough for me to endure it and release my hate for it were it belong.

Then you need to love yourself more because isn't it better to have what you want be obtainable through means you actually enjoy? This is a game, after all. But every hit in Eureka tells the devs they were right, and they'd continue with this.

[Magic-Mal]

What if people value those thing higher than the pain in the ass Eureka is ? What choice do they have ? Do they really have to forget about what make them stay subscribe just because Eureka is bad?

Yes

SE doesn't care about how much you complain if you still eat it. All they want is to bribe you into the content so you can keep doing it while they have no actual plans to fix it. Why should they? You still play it regardless. No need for changes right? Why do you think we stopped getting hairstyles for free for example?

I decided I'd never play Eureka. As much as I'd like to have my BRD relic and collect the hairstyles, mounts, and emotes.

[LauraAdalena]

Long response, but I feel it’s necessary, just so I don’t have to touch this subject again,

You're wasting everyone's time AND MONEY with this useless crapfest. And this is me being as nice as I possibly can.

Ftfy

You realize this is all content that’s been in development for months already and they aren't just going to not release it.

Yep.

Eureka, by some peoples thoughts, is successful for them. Glamours clearly havent been, due to all the complaining here on the forums.

Ultimate is probably about as successful as eureka, probably less actually, in terms of number of people able to access and do the content.

Yep. Doesn’t mean it’s actually successful. I know that lots of people I know stopped caring about Eureka, and as someone who loved Diadem 2.0 and enjoyed Anemos when I could get parties with my friends and get drunk, Pagos killed all interest for Pyros and the following, and no fixes will change that. And I get the feeling 90% of the playerbase who liked Anemos felt this way, and 100% of the people who disliked Anemos but still did it just quit as soon as the chains were the best thing. Feelings do not equal reality. Is it keeping players engaged and subscribed? No. So therefore, it’s not successful. Also, comparing Ultimate to Eureka, as many have pointed out, is a severe misunderstanding of who Ultimate is aimed toward. You are comparing content aimed toward hardcore players to content aimed toward casual players that doesn’t really understand the casual mindset or time constraints.

Oh also, comparing people’s complaints of glamours just because they can’t apply them where they used to, as well as never getting a furnishing for the Glamour Dresser is a huge difference. The glamour plates give us a lot more than we used to have, a free glamour of every piece of gear without having to spend another glamour prism and set them to specific classes? Sign me up! I still have the complaints above, but they aren’t complaints… more constructive criticisms since they seem to not want to restrict us to sanctuaries anymore, but then just decided randomly to re-restrict us to sanctuaries and inns.

I'd rather have new chocobo racing tracks than more Eureka.

PLEASE. I WANT A MORE DONUTS TRACK OR CCH TRACK. Hell, rework chocobo racing and let me ride any mount I want.

Then consider that people DO play Eureka, and some enjoy it. The majority might complain about it all day long, but as long as people are setting foot in the instances, SE will consider it to be working - devs usually just see the game from the back end, through numbers of participants. I daresay that when I log on tonight, there will be multiple full instances of Pyros.

Yes. I do enjoy Diadem 2.0. No, the actual Diadem 2.0 with Emergency Missions was actually kinda fun. But that doesn’t mean I don’t understand that so few people are actually playing the content to warrant it to keep running right now in SB when few people actually set foot in it, nor does it warrant this being worth SE’s time when so little of the playerbase does it. Also, I think they know how poorly the content has been received because of how few people are actually playing it, hence why Pagos is the fastest nerfed relic step in the history of the game. Not even the 20/20/20/20 (Unidentified) or Book step were nerfed that fast, and both of those are considered the worst steps in the game.

No, it’s not as bad as either of those, but good god do so few people actually want to do it. Hell, I put myself through the Unidentified step and felt rewarded after I did it, after finishing Anemos I felt like “Cool. Now what?” That’s just my opinion based off of many others.

It IS an MMO. If people want to do the content, they can grab a group of friends and hop in. Thats what I've been doing with Anemos. I have 2 friends that absolutely refused to do it after they stepped in and killed a couple mobs by themselves.

They actually enjoy it now when we've been doing it as a group.

I also think some people go in with the mindset of "this is a grind, I hate grinds, I hate this."

Actually, I love a good grind. There are grinds in this game and many others that, in my opinion, are extremely rewarding when done well. How do you do a grind that’s successful and fun? Reward the player every set step/point. IE, I know people will disagree with me now but let’s give this the context of at the time when healer’s didn’t have accuracy and accuracy was an actual thing in the game, the aethersand step as a scholar was really fun and felt like I was making myself stronger. Other games that do it right, imo, outside of FFXIV?

Fire Emblem: Awakening with its relationship system and how you develop relationships to make your army stronger felt extremely rewarding when you’d grind.

FFV’s job system and how maxing out jobs and leveling jobs gave more abilities for you to use outside of the job it’s on AND stat gains for the base class, Freelancer, was extremely rewarding and felt really good when you’d max a job and switch to a new one.
Those are just my examples, and I feel like Eureka does neither of what those games do in terms of rewarding the player for the grind instead giving weapons that, for some people, aren’t even worth it unless you really want glamour.

Also, Anemos is good. It’s not great, but it does enough good for me to actually say I enjoy it, but only with friends especially when I can drink with them. Pagos was not fun, even drunk. I don’t even know how to say it outside of just telling you that I can not enjoy Pagos drunk. I cannot speak about Pyros, but honestly… The RNG stats (especially since I stopped raiding due to personal things) are not worth it for me, especially on the classes that don’t get good weapons on Suzaku. I’d much rather put in the effort to get a party and do Suzaku again for a weapon that’s not as good for my class than have to finish Pagos’ weapon and do Pyros. And just leveling in Pyros isn’t rewarding to me, because I don’t get anything out of it.

----

Alright, so enough replying to comments and here’s my opinion:

They keep messing up Eureka. It’s a solid concept, but what they should have done so they weren’t stuck with pushing out what they had last minute was released Anemos on the first .5 patch of the game and actually took the criticism from it. I personally feel like they put themselves in a corner where they don’t have time to apply people’s criticisms or if they do they are blatantly ignoring them, even from the Japanese side which they are usually extremely open to listening to. It’s a bizzare feeling of like they want and need to release this content but they haven’t taken any criticism to make it actually good to a majority of the players. I feel like they’ve forced themselves into a crunch period of astronomical proportions and to get it done they have to reuse systems from Anemos and Pagos to actually get it done.

I’m not excusing this behavior, nor am I even saying that they should not have released the content at all or saying that they have a chance. They don’t, they are too close to the end of the expansion and said earlier, they pushed themselves into a corner. In all honesty, they could have done something like this that was good, but they made us wait too long, they are now cramming it down our throats as fast as possible, and my personal opinion is…

This is not content. Content in the game should be stuff we actually can return to at most points and be able to do it. This is limited time content. Content like diadem where once its use has been fulfilled when it’s on-content people will just leave it and never come back. And it’s already happening, with Anemos and Pagos being practically empty at points (Or so I’ve heard) meaning people who actually want the relic will have to wait for a nerf. And no, that’s not how it should be. If it’s intended to be content to keep us hooked and they’re just going to nerf it later down the road, this is not well-designed content. This is content that was meant to hold us over and little more. Even dungeons have more use than that given the HW relic requires certain dungeons to be done, and the 50/60 roulette becomes really good if you have them all unlocked. And fates? At least those are used for relics in ARR and heavensward, and are used by DPS waiting for queues to get leveling faster.

Diadem, Eureka, and other content like these are not good content if when they stop being relevant they’ll just be shoved aside and never acknowledged or even have their use stripped of them in the cases of Diadem where the Unidentifiable Crafted items are now in the Grand Companies and no longer need to be HQ so you just buy one and you’re done. Content like this is not healthy for the game as a whole and makes content seem slimmer when you step back and analyze what content people will actually be doing after its time in the sun is gone.

That is my opinion, whether you share it or not is whatever. I’m done talking about this, and I think I’m going to take a break from this game as a whole and go finish FFV now, because at least when I’m grinding there I can have fun.