Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Legion88]

My true definition of bad, before all other definitions, is a player who acts like a jerk. you can play like trash and as long as you're trying your best, you're still a better player than someone who's a jerk.

This is a very subjective definiton...and a wrong one.
Also it judges the person and not the level of play.
Do you have any objektive criteria?

[Sylvina]

This is a very subjective definiton...
Also it judges the person and not the kind of play.
Do you have any objektive criteria?

Objectively, if a player acts like a bad person, they are bad yes. I don't have unreasonable expectations of pugs. All I expect is that they manage to clear it, depending on the content I May or may not expect them to clear with minimal trouble. and I wont shame someone if they fail to live up to those expectations. worst case scenario I apologize and leave the queue, eating a penalty if I have to.

[Daibunnie]

Objectively, if a player acts like a bad person, they are bad yes. I don't have unreasonable expectations of pugs.

Knowing how to play your class at level 70 is unreasonable now? No wonder there's so many trashy, greedy, bad players. Most of them probably think they're good because they got carried and don't even bother taking the advice people do give them like your mystic shield lob spammer.

[Legion88]

Objectively, if a player acts like a bad person, they are bad yes.

So you use the evil part of bad? Just a subjective feeling?
Again no proper objective criteria and you're focusing on the person not the player.

I don't have unreasonable expectations of pugs.

So here we are the same.

All I expect is that they manage to clear it, depending on the content I May or may not expect them to clear with minimal trouble.

And here we differ.
I expect them to know and perform at least their basic job mechanics and basic content mechanics dependent of the content.

and I wont shame someone if they fail to live up to those expectations.

I don't shame anyone either. I will state that he is not performing on a level fitting for the content and will ask if he will improve or not. If he declines by word or action i will get rid of this player.

worst case scenario I apologize and leave the queue, eating a penalty if I have to.

Worst case.

You see we are not as different as you may think but i have reasonable objective criteria and expectations i can fall back on judging others, while you more or less just use your feelings and subjectivity.

[Granyala]

I expect them to know and perform at least their basic job mechanics and basic content mechanics dependent of the content.

Yes / no. I expect them to know their class, aye. I do not expect them to know all mechanics if the content is still relatively fresh or of they are new.

Savage/ex excluded for obvious reasons, if you want to go in blind, do so with a static of like minded people but don't waste 7 other peoples time while they watch you learn the ropes.

[Vahlnir]

Yes / no. I expect them to know their class, aye. I do not expect them to know all mechanics if the content is still relatively fresh or of they are new.

Savage/ex excluded for obvious reasons, if you want to go in blind, do so with a static of like minded people but don't waste 7 other peoples time while they watch you learn the ropes.

Most people should be aware of a few things by lvl 70, and this includes the following:

1. Stacking markers
2. Various AoE types to dodge and take away from other players
3. Killing adds
4. At least a dozen different enemy abilities like meteors and certain knockbacks
5. Character placement for optimal rotations, like not standing in front of a boss which requires a tank unless they're unleashing an attack behind them.

If people aren't familiar with ANY of these...they have no business is higher end content, and should make sure they get themselves acquainted before they try. That doesn't make them bad, per say, that just makes them oblivious. And yes, I still see people running away with stacking markers, avoiding meteors and eating cleaves.

[Granyala]

If people aren't familiar with ANY of these...they have no business is higher end content

Dungeons, normal 8mans and 24mans are not "higher end content".
They are the content in which people are supposed to learn.

Not everyone raided in a past expansion, you would be surprised to how little mechanics you are exposed to while leveling, esp if you get thrown into a run with groups that steamroll the older content.

[Vahlnir]

Dungeons, normal 8mans and 24mans are not "higher end content".
They are the content in which people are supposed to learn.

Not everyone raided in a past expansion, you would be surprised to how little mechanics you are exposed to while leveling, esp if you get thrown into a run with groups that steamroll the older content.

But the mechanics I specifically mentioned are not exclusive to 4, 8 or 24 man content. These are basics that, yes, are brought up even during the leveling process.

[Legion88]

Yes / no. I expect them to know their class, aye. I do not expect them to know all mechanics if the content is still relatively fresh or of they are new.

Savage/ex excluded for obvious reasons, if you want to go in blind, do so with a static of like minded people but don't waste 7 other peoples time while they watch you learn the ropes.

Basic content mechanics are not duty specific.
It's such things like staying out of AoE markers because they do unnecessary damage to you and can have other sideeffects, stack for stack markers, don't spread the party unnecessary/without reason, using AoEs on 4-5+ mobs, depending on job.
I'm not talking about duty specific mechanics, strategies and tactics, i'm talking about the basics for every duty.