Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Yuiipuru]

I can deal with bad players, and do all the time. I much prefer them over toxic players.

^ this
With alphascape nm especially, when runs go bad I try to remember that some people may be new, or are still trying to get used to the fight.
Not everyone gets mechanics down pat after their first clear.

I'll take a couple wipes with someone sincerely doing their best to clear over a player who feels the need to belittles others if they don't play the way they want them to any day.

But like, if you're having any issues, please let your party know. Most people are willing to help if you ask//

[HyoMinPark]

I can deal with bad players, and do all the time. I much prefer them over toxic players.

As has been pointed out, there are myriad of reasons why a player is playing poorly, but I never take it upon myself to try an improve a player's performance. They did not solicit any advice, and so it will not be received positively in most cases. There is the argument that a player may not know they're bad, but the issue here as I see it is a player who actually cares about their performance will continue to strive to get better regardless of their current skill. On their own, and will likewise seek out advice.

In a case where one player is trying to force feed a rotation to another member, I am actually going to consider the former to be more toxic unless the latter is clearly trolling. This doesn't warrant advice though; it warrants a swift boot from the party. I say that because the player trying to give advice is disrupting the run to do so, and for very little if any benefit at best. Since giving unwanted advice serves more to lengthen the run, and piss off others, it is actually falls more in line with the definition to trolling than the person playing poorly.

Again, a lot of people aren’t talking about content like dungeons. We’re talking about high-end content where knowing your rotation is absolutely necessary (and, honestly, people should know their rotations in dungeons as well). It is far more toxic for a SAM to join in on an Extreme farm party and proceed to use their AOE combos or spam Enpi on a boss as opposed to single-target because “lol this is how I want to play these animations look cooler” compared to the person who would say “Hey, please use your single-target rotation on a boss because it’s more effective and deals more damage”.

When you start joining endgame content, you should know how your job functions. No one is expecting perfection, but if you are a MNK not hitting positionals or a BRD not using their songs or a SMN that won’t use a pet, you are clearly not fit to be in level 70 content of any kind. And it’s not “toxic” to have other people point out your shortcomings in content where you should know how your job plays.

^ this
With alphascape nm especially, when runs go bad I try to remember that some people may be new, or are still trying to get used to the fight.
Not everyone gets mechanics down pat after their first clear.

I'll take a couple wipes with someone sincerely doing their best to clear over a player who feels the need to belittles others if they don't play the way they want them to any day.

But like, if you're having any issues, please let your party know. Most people are willing to help if you ask//

No, people don’t get all the mechanics down pat after their first clear. But that’s still not an adequate defense for a BLM doing only 3,000 DPS in the first minute of the fight where the mechanics are quite simple because they want to only use Blizzard III (you probably think I’m joking, but I’m not; I actually got a BLM who only used Bliz III in V12N last week—and judging from other existing logs of theirs, that is legitimately how they play in all content; it wasn’t just them trolling on a random V12N run).

[Gemina]

Again, a lot of people aren’t talking about content like dungeons. We’re talking about high-end content where knowing your rotation is absolutely necessary (and, honestly, people should know their rotations in dungeons as well).

Neither am I. When discussing matters such as this one, I factor in all content because I operate under the notion that everyone should bring their A game no matter the content. My expectations of our playerbase does not decrease with dungeons, nor does it increase with high-end content. If you are level 70, I expect you to know your job, period. If someone has to explain to you that you don't AoE on single target at level 70, you don't belong in anything other than solo content. I think we agree here.

It is far more toxic for a SAM to join in on an Extreme farm party and proceed to use their AOE combos or spam Enpi on a boss as opposed to single-target because “lol this is how I want to play these animations look cooler” compared to the person who would say “Hey, please use your single-target rotation on a boss because it’s more effective and deals more damage”.

But that's a clear case of trolling. Of course this is more toxic. That wasn't the example I provided though. What I spoke of is a player deliberately bringing a run down because a player is not performing according to their own expectations. Whether these expectations were set by the meta, personal fflogs, unrealistic, or even just the general playstyle of a certain job what's going on is the player feels like they are being attacked, and that is why they go on the defensive and lash out.

There seems to be fine lines we walk when it comes to this topic. I say this because, I am going to see that a player trying to help has good intentions, and I am also going to know when an underperforming player is still trying. I carry another expectation, and that is experienced players should be able to tell the difference between this and toxic players who do not deserve their help, and toxic players trying to cram playstyles down another person's throat. Neither are welcome in any of my parties.

I'll give some examples:

"Hey Gem... did you know if you open with DA+Dark Passenger, you don't really need to be in Grit? You have Blackest Knight now, you can toss the safety net."

"Hey DRK... WTF is up with you being in Grit full time? Any tank worth their salt knows you don't stay in tank stance."

While I am not saying that any of you in particular use the latter, I will say that the latter I usually this "constructive criticism" that I see being tossed around. If anyone wants to tell me to grow thicker skin, I will respond with my thin skin makes it easier for me to smell BS.

[Mordoni]

Since everyone else has given their views on what equals New/Bad, I guess I'll have a turn...

If it's my first time in a Dungeon/Raid, if I mess up and die more than once, I'll apologize and admit to being the "Noob," maybe even ask what I did wrong (if mechanics and not AOE).

If I'm on an unfamiliar class or using a different hotbar (PS4 user), I'll practise before doing any group content (besides Fates).

If I'm sick or tired, I'll just stick to Solo/World Content, if I play at all.

It's not hard to take some responsibility for your own actions, is it?

As for being called "Bad," all I'll say is that without clarification, it just means "Not as Good as me," which like "Bad" as a comment, is subjective as hell.

[Awful]

I mean the vote dismiss button exists for a reason idk why people need validation in order to kick someone I kicked two people from World of Darkness because the healer didn't heal and their DPS friend was AFK auto attacking, even in 70 content if someone's not pulling their weight I will initiate a vote dismiss. I don't lose sleep over it I just move on with my life since this is a game and I don't know these people I have my own standards they have their own.

[gamepob]

Having players deliberately or not deliberately underperform is and always will be bad for group content. But I prefer those than toxic trolls. A bad player can learn. A troll can (will) not. I've seen it numerous times in this or any other games, what happens when two (or more) toxic players start with their daily dose of "mommy, my nose is runny again" cry for attention. It can derail whatever the group was doing like not bad player can.

It's very simple, really. One should always ask oneself "Would I have the character, desire or courage to say "you are bad" to this person if we were face to face?" Meaning in real life. If the answer is "no", you should just forget about it and move one. After all, you don't want to be one of internet trolls, do you? Having courage to insult others only when hiding your true identity.
Who needs people like that? They are just BAD.

[Tint]

I have social anxiety, I even retired because of it.

For some reason I don't understand myself, I am playing DRK. I really like the class. But the tankxiety is strong, even after playing it for 3 years now. I know it's considered bad gameplay, but I really need the comfort zone of my tankstance. I drop it occasionally at some dungeon bosses when I know them pretty well, but I usually don't have a good feeling about it.

[Lambdafish]

I have social anxiety, I even retired because of it.

For some reason I don't understand myself, I am playing DRK. I really like the class. But the tankxiety is strong, even after playing it for 3 years now. I know it's considered bad gameplay, but I really need the comfort zone of my tankstance. I drop it occasionally at some dungeon bosses when I know them pretty well, but I usually don't have a good feeling about it.

My best advice would be to play 8 man content with a co-tank that you know. I don't have anxiety playing tank but I'm always a little uneasy in pug groups with a tank I'm unfamiliar with, but communication with your co-tank is always key, especially when you are dropping grit. Have them watch enmity as much you do, and give you a shirk when needed. Also use tools like anticipation now that you have access to them.

Even if not needed, using anticipation when dropping grit may help with the anxiety of dying, and watch your enmity closely and use a power slash when needed

[Aquaslash]

I have social anxiety, I even retired because of it.

For some reason I don't understand myself, I am playing DRK. I really like the class. But the tankxiety is strong, even after playing it for 3 years now. I know it's considered bad gameplay, but I really need the comfort zone of my tankstance. I drop it occasionally at some dungeon bosses when I know them pretty well, but I usually don't have a good feeling about it.

Real talk, the worst that's gonna happen if you stay in tank stance is your damage will be low. In 99% of cases, it will not prevent you from clearing, even in EXs and some savages. If I'm hitting enrages, I'm gonna be looking at the DPS first and foremost, and then I'll be checking deaths and such.

It is sub optimal but I imagine you'd stay away from the content where it truly makes or breaks a run anyway so don't stress over it.

[Ilan]

1. Are they a new player?

2. Did they recently change their UI/Binds or both?

3. Are they having a bad day or are they feeling sick?

Could be any of these things or more preventing someone from performing well. and to be fair most of the time I find it is.

So you really want to say that 80% of the players are new, changed UI/keybinds, have a bad day or are sick...EVERY day? Come on you can't be serious.
Also if you see some sprouts you usualy cut them some slack, no one with a brain will call them out for beeing bad.