This Needs to Be Said

[Ilyrian]

If diadem was well liked, why did the devs need to do a second version, apologize for the first and then release something that was even faster death? (I mean its probably the second content next to LoV that was death that fast) So the playerbase totally loved Diadem.

I didn't say it was well liked... by the people who were there at least. Ya girl wasn't there and hasn't even set foot in Pagos.

[Deceptus]

Look, you can dislike Eureka as you will. But the point is, don't get antsy about something based on a single line in an interview. That same interview was touting the SAM, RDM, and BLM changes as if they were something special, when they just were straight potency icnreases. A big problem is overreacting based on this, and we simply don't know yet if it will be a serious problem.
.

The problem is for SE white knighters is that it's never enough.

* Don't freak out about the patch notes, wait until you play it.

* Stop freaking out about leveling your jobs wait until you're max level

* Stop freaking out about being max level, you're simply doing it Wrong

* Fix the issue that was brought up at the beginning of the expansion a year later.

[KaivaC]

I wasn't done editing when you wrote back- my fault, anyhow.

This is an mmo, you pick and choose whats compatible with you- not everything will be, if we set the bar at "new content must be the type for me or it can't be constructed because it takes time from the delivery of the set dungeons and raids" -a formula we complain about to no end as well, how can we ever innovate. It may not be perfect but at least they are trying and that means taking risks and persevering past failure. I think it is safe to say most people agree some favorable progress is being made with every iteration of the instance, although yes probably Anemos is more likable. But maybe this is evidence to your point and it is your right to voice your opinion but understand that I was exercising that same right when disagreeing with you. However I admit my original comment was in poor taste and improperly conveyed my intent, I'm not trying to accuse you of any wrongdoing.

Edit: But seeing your post from above it seems the main gripe is relics being tied to it? I mean, I can't argue against it, they have changed the way we obtain them and if this content doesn't suit you I can see why you dislike it, I can't offer any solution to that matter but compared to how they used to be obtained what is the biggest barrier for you? Group play doesn't seem to be a problem from your original post, is it the grind? I recommend you try Pagos before jumping to conclusions based off what other people are saying about Pagos, you mentioned you have not yet tried it. It really isn't that bad, I think it can be finished easily in less than a month.

From my view, this is not exactly them trying something new and innovating. This, to me, is them trying to refine a formula that has been receiving nothing but fierce pushback because, lo and behold, this is not FFXI. There is too much reliance on FATE grinds. I get it - they want to create content that lasts. I can acknowledge that in theory, yes, they are making steps in that direction. But the Diadem-style just doesn't work for a lot of us. You only have one option to get your relic. You don't have a choice to run different type of content. It's Eureka or bust.

But since obtaining the relic is already your choice, you have the choice not to run this content.
It's exactly the same as every other weapon besides Tome. If you want Byakko weapon, you do Byakko EX, if you want an Empyrean weapon, you have to do HoH, if you want a Diamond weapon, you do Omega Savage. You're the one giving that much importance to the relic, so you're the one forcing you to do the content, so again, it's on you, especially when they made perfectly clear from the get go that this would be a "Eureka weapon".

And they're right to do so, since again, if you're not satisfied, no one forces you to do it. And they can't have a decent sample on how many people are "satisfied".

That's why I make myself clear that you're not in the wrong for not liking it

Color me pesimistic but I doubt "encouraging" would be enough. But, frankly, I wouldn't be against a mandatory poll at login. Since Eureka is clearly the most divisive part of SB, it would help having a clear tendency, wether it favors me or you.

I wouldn't want a mandatory poll. Like I said earlier, the devs could easily just encourage it, but don't force players to give feedback - that's just shooting yourself in the foot. But they certainly can make it easy for players to provide honest feedback. You know as well as I that a lot of players want a relic weapon. A lot of us don't mind a grind - just not in this method.

Look, you can dislike Eureka as you will. But the point is, don't get antsy about something based on a single line in an interview. That same interview was touting the SAM, RDM, and BLM changes as if they were something special, when they just were straight potency icnreases. A big problem is overreacting based on this, and we simply don't know yet if it will be a serious problem.

As for pagos...honestly, I think a lot of the salt comes from people expecting to bang out multiple relics in a week. It's actualy fast progression just doing your logs per week, and joining fates nearby you when they pop; if you are below 30, just stay in the southern part doing your logs, and maybe exp a little on mobs that pop the low level fates. You can level pretty fast, and light gain so far is ok doing it.

The issues do come to a head if your goal is to get multiple ones. But a lot of issues I think comes to teh playerbase wanting to either slowly do things in chunks of no more than fifteen minutes, or hardcore gridn it out in a week or less from launch. This isn't really designed for that.

No...the issue is that it's far too much grinding for what you get in the end. That's...really it. And again, the ability to be able to do these grinds in Eureka is hinging on enough players keeping each zone populated enough for newer players entering. Players are just tired of FATE grinding and Diadem-style instances. You are sitting here telling me I can dislike Eureka as much as I want, and then immediately tell me not to respond to a line that came from the devs in an interview that they gave. Maybe you are willing to give it a chance, and that's okay for you. But don't tell players who already dislike Eureka's grind that they shouldn't be a little bit perturbed about information that came out about Pyros.

I didn't say it was well liked... by the people who were there at least. Ya girl wasn't there and hasn't even set foot in Pagos.

Oh? Have you been stalking me? Because you're a terrible stalker. Do you know for sure that I never went to Diadem? Hm? Did it not occur to you that, yes, I have been to Diadem. I went with my very first Siren FC. And yes, I hated it. So what now? I shouldn't complain about Eureka just because I haven't gone into Pagos? Even though it's much of the same in concept and execution? That, despite the fact that I'd be entering at level 20, I lose access to my mounts again, I lose access to aethernet, and after I claw my way back up to 35, I have to farm for light exclusively, despite whatever gains I may get starting at level 25? It's pretty bad to make assumptions based on what I choose to share. Also...fun fact, my current forum character is not my only character, nor is it my main. So...

...I leave the floor to you for a retort.

Giving your opinions on things you haven't done - reminds me of the time you started telling people how to do Savage... great times.
Oh and remember how you when you gave me your opinion of WoW when you haven't even played it... something to cherish.

Anyway - You put my back up when you create these bandwagons for people to follow, having no solid experience yourself. I should ignore it, you're right about that. Carry on, I guess; at least you've got another thread out of it.

Ah...bringing things up that really have nothing to do with this thread. Ok then, moving on.

[RiyahArp]

The problem is for SE white knighters is that it's never enough.

* Don't freak out about the patch notes, wait until you play it.

...do you remember the wailing about WHM before Stormblood? You remember people complaining how OP SAM was? Yeah, people should wait some.

* Stop freaking out about being max level, you're simply doing it Wrong

It's more like realize you have some freedom, you aren't locked into doing it in the most punishing way possible. You can just duo logs and duo fate triggers near your level, and do good. You don't have to do nonstop 4 hour grinding. It's not the only way.

[Ilyrian]

Oh? Have you been stalking me? Because you're a terrible stalker. Do you know for sure that I never went to Diadem? Hm? Did it not occur to you that, yes, I have been to Diadem. I went with my very first Siren FC. And yes, I hated it. So what now? I shouldn't complain about Eureka just because I haven't gone into Pagos? Even though it's much of the same in concept and execution? That, despite the fact that I'd be entering at level 20, I lose access to my mounts again, I lose access to aethernet, and after I claw my way back up to 35, I have to farm for light exclusively, despite whatever gains I may get starting at level 25? It's pretty bad to make assumptions based on what I choose to share. Also...fun fact, my current forum character is not my only character, nor is it my main. So...

...I leave the floor to you for a retort.

Giving your opinions on things you haven't done - reminds me of the time you started telling people how to do Savage... great times.
Oh and remember how you when you gave me your opinion of WoW when you haven't even played it... something to cherish.

Anyway - You put my back up when you create these bandwagons for people to follow, having no solid experience yourself. I should ignore it, you're right about that. Carry on, I guess; at least you've got another thread out of it.

[Raven_Darkstar]

So. Normally I confine my participation in threads on volatile subjects like this to the like button. However, there's a rebuttal to the Eureka defenders that I'm not seeing. And that is this: RE - no one's making you do it, and it's "just another weapon".

Ahem. Sorry, but no. The relic is not "just" another weapon. Tome weapons can be upgraded exactly once, and don't have any special appearance. I can't speak to savage weapons, ex primal weapons, but afaik, they're not upgradable (perhaps savage are? haven't tried savage myself). So the relic has two things going for it - 1.upgradable multiple times until at last, for an all too brief moment at the end of the xpac, it becomes the strongest weapon, and 2. special appearance - ie a permanent weapon glam for your collection once it's no longer usable itself.

Now, SE quite knowingly threw the relic weapons, and the new armors, plus a ton of collectible stuff, into this content, *knowing* that people regardless of their very vocal dislike for this type of content, would feel compelled to participate. And thusly, fluffing up participation numbers so that they could claim it to be a success, and be able to make as much of this uninspired, overly rng laden, vomitous excuse for content, as they please. I mean, the devs enjoy it, so therefore, so should the players, right? /s

People that like it, that's fine. Doesn't bother me a bit. My complaint is simply the locking away of a previously far more accessible questline for an upgradable weapon, behind content that I find sleep inducingly boring, and even worse, extremely physically painful (my wrists and hands, which I have problems with anyway).

Anemos was tolerable, even fun quite often (once I joined the NM train). Pagos? I set foot in there week 1, killed 1 mob, and after an eternity at that, and the realization that all the things that made Anemos tolerable/fun had been willfully, spitefully destroyed, I noped out and have not been back. Nor will I, not unless or until, it gets nerfed to the ground, or at the very least, brought to Anemos lvls.

Perhaps some may consider me a bit dramatic here, and more than touch cynical. And that's fair. I am extremely upset though, that I am most likely going to have to give this relic a miss.

TLDR: Relic is not *just* a weapon. It is a repeatedly upgradable weapon with a special appearance, that will eventually be the strongest. The rest, (and disclaimer here) was mainly my opinion, in which I make no claims to speak for anyone else, blah blah blah. I am simply including myself amonst the vocal dislikers of Eureka. ;P

[RiyahArp]

Now, SE quite knowingly threw the relic weapons, and the new armors, plus a ton of collectible stuff, into this content, *knowing* that people regardless of their very vocal dislike for this type of content, would feel compelled to participate

Um, there was no pre-existing (added this..) vocal dislike of the content. Pagos is disliked more because they made it a lot harder for people by seriously hampering the fate train in response how it trivialized the content. Most of the dislike really came with Pagos, which was an overreaction to anemos, possibly because Se listened too much to voices who disliked people leeching their way to relics. Diadem wasn't disliked for itself, but for design decisions about rewards like randomized stats and the 72 man battles. I mean, this was more or less experimental content to vary how people obtain relics.

Like it wasn't something like tossing hairstyles or minions into PvP, which is closer to what you mean. People knowing what the content is like and definitely disliking being forced to do it. Anemos is more a new quantitiy with each version. It's just in pagos they did what they did with heavensward rotations and skills, misread the player mood.

[Xau]

snip

there is other reason why relic is so important, unlike now on sb and the so delayed(and late) releases of eureka, on arr(starting on 2.2 since 2.0 and 2.1 didn't had tome weapons) and hw, it was the best choice to give multiple jobs a weapon whit not costing 1K of capped tomes(which cuts on your gearing your fav jobs whit current armor), yet here we either have(the ones who we hate it) to suffer eureka, or gear less jobs, yes, there is crafted armor to get you to ilvl unupgraded tome gear when they make the upgrade part avariable(if they repeat that's it, and we know they will), but not everyone is rich to buy those,, and even worse, it doesn't brings you to max ilvl(this affects 24 man gear as well) in case you want to do some ex trials, is common people sets up pf on max ilvl avariable to the majority of the playerbase at the time, or at least is on chaos datacenter

[MomomiMomi]

Um, there was no pre-existing (added this..) vocal dislike of the content.

Diadem, which died extremely fast.

They knew the players weren't very receptive to this style of content. This is probably why they shoved relics in there to get people to do it.

[Reynhart]

I wouldn't want a mandatory poll. Like I said earlier, the devs could easily just encourage it, but don't force players to give feedback - that's just shooting yourself in the foot.

Let's be real, it's too late now to change Pyros or the fourth installment from their planned release. So, I'd say it's a good time to have a real significant feedback so that they can adjust what big alternate content they have in store for the next expansion. At worst, people will massively dislike it, and it will help not making the same "mistakes".

But they certainly can make it easy for players to provide honest feedback.

It's very easy to post on the forum to provide your feedback, but people are lazy to not do it.