This Needs to Be Said

[HiroesX81]

That is quite the leap of assumption there. Just because it was enjoyable in Borderlands 1, 2, and the Pre-Sequel, does not equate to the exact same thing here in FFXIV. In fact, the billions of different weapons are one of the key driving points of that series - not here in FFXIV.



? Prove what? That the complaints against Eureka as a whole have only grown since Anemos? That even in-game, away from reddit, gamefaqs, and the forums, you can still spot people complaining about it? I'm not sure what you are getting at here. What exactly are you asking me to prove? Dead instances weren't even mentioned in my OP...so yeah...

All youve said is "It sucks, I dont wanna do it and the people I know dont wanna do it either". Thats not enough basis for them to end the whole thing. Theyve already said were getting two more areas. And every time I personally go in all I see is full instances of people farming, BARELY any complaints. So far its your word against mine. And I dont sound like im complaining. :P Nobody would listen to any of you. And the fact that theyve gone this long without adressing it is proof.

[Its_Elodie]

I’ve done multiple relics down to the original atma step of the first, I did two unnerfed atma weapons, at that. I’ve done diadem too and got my pegasus and managed to kidnapp a baby brachiosaurus and hunting hawk (because the drop rates seemed a lot better than anything in Pagos). I did the emergency fate once and while the coordination of all of the people in an instance that size was pretty insane, doing it for the experience itself with friends was fun. I was rewarded slowly for my time spent with these relics and even in the Diadem.

I can find good points in all of the previous relics including the comraderie we found together in Anemos but as the series continues to be rolled out I feel like SE is just an ever present parent disciplining us for not enjoying their content in the way they had intended by punishing us with repetitive mob grinding content (which is literally unhealthy for us and I’m honestly surprised they encourage it) and now is likely going to take the one solace that used to be something worth doing the relic for besides glamor, our relic substats.. and hide it behind multi-layered rng, as if almost all of the buildup to that point isn’t soul-crushing enough as it is.

What I personally find disturbing is the path some of their content such as Pagos is taking. Not only is it repetitive, unhealthy, and frustrating (if you want that emote, boss drop, or cold lock box drops be prepared for a ridiculous amount of rng), it is an insult to our time spent in game. This relic is just not worth my time obtaining. I wish the devs would understand that when creating this content that was once creative, fun, and rewarding and is now the garbage we are getting that is Pagos and very likely Pyros. The reward just doesn’t justify the time spent doing the content.

At some point they will likely backpedal with the grind and requirements like they usually do. Even then, I don’t plan on going back even after the nerfs eventually come out, just out of spite for the content itself. Biggest question is why they won’t listen to us and continue to shove this soulless content down our throats when the general game population is saying no to it. What happened to their mantra “if it isn’t fun?” It’s also worrying to me that this will be the path for the foreseeable future of the relic storyline. What was once well thought out content with new trials, a decent storyline, and something we could pace ourselves with as we do what we enjoy doing in game, whether it be raiding, dailies, or whatever is now mindless monster zerging for hours upon hours on end with a shallow storyline and topped with layers of cheap rng at the end. If that is the continued path it will be another piece of content of theirs I just won’t bother with anymore. Which is sad, because I used to enjoy it.

[Lunavi]

Idk, doesn't Eureka have higher participation numbers than Savage and Ultimate? Pretty clear which content needs to be axed in favor of content people actually do enjoy...

Obviously playing Devil's Advocate here, but this is likely how the dev team view things.

[MomomiMomi]

I loved the concept of Diadem. I loved how they said it would keep getting updates. I was looking forward to those updates.

They release Diadem, and it was a huge amount of wasted potential. Okay, they promised updates; let's wait this out. They never came. They took Diadem down, redesigned it, and it was worse. It died in less than a week and they never touched it again.

And every iteration since (Anemos, Pagos) has been worse and worse.

I still love the concept, but the devs have failed to make it fun. And when you've failed at that, you've just plain failed.

[Rokke]

I ran everything, but those were the fastest/most efficient, so naturally I ran a lot of those. If I didn't do A1S none of my stuff would be finished. Tracking light and doing a 30 minute 24 man for a chunk of light = might as well not even do it.

The "defense" comes from being able to do the content, and always having people available to do the content. Eureka has that, the efficient dungeons don't.

It also is because doing the same duties for no additional rewards is both A) a lot of work B) boring.

Eureka doesn't depend on me tanking every single moment I'm in there, so it's less work. And I can talk in shout, watch the chaos of a FATE unfold, mess around with bunny fates, or change camps as soon as I'm bored. I can't do any of that in a dungeon, and 24 man raids aren't conducive to any funny or interesting conversations most of the time. So Eureka provides more entertainment, and is less demanding, and thus less mind-numbing.

Again, you are pointing out the most efficient way to grind light. Yes, grinding certain things were more efficient. I am not arguing that. I am saying that there were options, which there were. You didn't need to spam A1S anymore than you needed to spam, say, Void Ark. Neither were necessary evils. You had the choice to work through the most efficient way or to work slower but run alternative content. Sometimes I ran a 24 man with my FC. Sometimes I glamour farmed dungeons. I even PVP'd to work towards both my mounts and my relics. I several complete Anima and I never felt the need to force myself through slogs of ARF, even now.

Eureka is Eureka. I cannot PVP in Eureka. I cannot work towards a mount in Eureka. Hell, due to a lack of level synching I can't even play with my FC in Eureka. In Eureka I have 2 options to progress : I can grind mobs or I can wait for others to grind mobs. Thats it.

Before I quit Pagos, there was little chatting in my parties. The most socializing happened when there was downtime finding new members when someone left the party, otherwise sans the occasional <flag> change when our camp got too cramped, It was radio silence and training dummies for 2+ hours. It that doesn't qualify for both a) a lot of work and b) boring, I don't know what does.

[Kurando]

Diadem was fun, and to an extent Eureka could be if relics weren't locked behind it, but I think the big problem is this idea of putting open world content in to instances. Sure it has the benefits of being cross world so there is plenty of players to participate, but what happens when the content becomes old and there is less reason to go in there. Eventually despite Eureka having the relics, players will decide (and some have already) to just skip it this expac altogether, and that's pretty unfortunate.

I would probably find more excitement if relics were linked to treasure map duties (like the canals), least I could go in there and have some fun and get worthy items in the process, rather than just farming the same boring mobs and get rewarded with sparklers at the end...

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm always perplexed when folks say Eureka is like Diadem. It certainly doesn't feel that way to me. Maybe they're comparing it to Diadem v2.0? I only tried that variant once. Regardless, there's several things that make Eureka more appealing to me than Diadem:
- Eureka has quests and a storyline. Honestly, I'd prefer to see MORE quests, sidequests and such, but that's beside the point.
- Eureka has a system of progression. You start weak, you get strong. The only "progression" Diadem allowed was the random chance of decent buffs on gear (or, later on, the stupefying luck of getting a better-than-raid weapon with decent stats).
- In Eureka, you're not always grinding the same mob. Well, you CAN, I guess; I know folks swear by their dragons or their Anubis or whatever, but in Diadem, you just ground dinos.
- Eureka has the train. It allowed for a lot of breezy, casual socializing. I was also continually impressed by the willingness of folks on the train to help total strangers. I don't think Diadem had anything similar.

Those aren't the only differences, but regardless, if the only definition of "Diadem-like" is a large, time-limited area with various objectives, then no, I disagree. That's too broad, and there are too many ways to take such a concept and do beautiful things with it. I won't claim that Eureka got the formula perfect, but it certainly did it head-and-shoulders better than Diadem did.

- The "storyline" is so barebones it doesn't deserve being called such. It essentially boils down to "go find thing and talk to me again in x amount of levels." There is no nuisance or development of any real sort not unlike how poorly received Heaven on High's equally barebones story was received.
- Progression which is instantly invalidated going into the next zone. We aren't given an explanation why we're suddenly weaker in Pagos. They couldn't even be bothered to mention why we lost our mounts. We just do. Progression for progression's sake feels incredibly hollow. There's no purpose behind it except "level again!"
- Yes, you are. Trash mobs in FFXIV have very little variance between them. They primarily auto, with only a small amount of anything unique or different. None of any noteworthy mechanics. You simply wail on them endlessly. Just because you're fighting a penguin or dragon doesn't make them any different than dinos if they all do virtually the same thing.
- You mean the train which was heavily restricted after players found their preferred method of grinding which didn't align with the dev's vision? The whole reason people are upset is because Eureka offers no choice. If the train were equally as viable but less efficient, you wouldn't see nearly the number of complaints you do now. But as NMs don't give light, it isn't viable whatsoever.

Eureka is, in every way, a reskinned Diadem. Changing around a couple things doesn't make it any more creative or different. It's merely minor tweaks. Considering Pyros will have random substats, something only Diadem has ever employed. They aren't even trying to hide the fact they're reusing Diadem as Eureka's template.

[Floortank]

Again, you are pointing out the most efficient way to grind light. Yes, grinding certain things were more efficient. I am not arguing that. I am saying that there were options, which there were. You didn't need to spam A1S anymore than you needed to spam, say, Void Ark. Neither were necessary evils. You had the choice to work through the most efficient way or to work slower but run alternative content. Sometimes I ran a 24 man with my FC. Sometimes I glamour farmed dungeons. I even PVP'd to work towards both my mounts and my relics. I several complete Anima and I never felt the need to force myself through slogs of ARF, even now.

Eureka is Eureka. I cannot PVP in Eureka. I cannot work towards a mount in Eureka. Hell, due to a lack of level synching I can't even play with my FC in Eureka. In Eureka I have 2 options to progress : I can grind mobs or I can wait for others to grind mobs. Thats it.

Before I quit Pagos, there was little chatting in my parties. The most socializing happened when there was downtime finding new members when someone left the party, otherwise sans the occasional <flag> change when our camp got too cramped, It was radio silence and training dummies for 2+ hours. It that doesn't qualify for both a) a lot of work and b) boring, I don't know what does.

lol, So you're saying you can only use one method to gain light--the very method I didn't use, and have two elemental weapons. But you're criticizing me for not liking that I had to run the same stuff over and over again for previous relics? Kudos.

[Rokke]

lol, So you're saying you can only use one method to gain light--the very method I didn't use, and have two elemental weapons. But you're criticizing me for not liking that I had to run the same stuff over and over again for previous relics? Kudos.

So theres more ways to grind light besides killing mobs or waiting for others to spawn NMs? :thinking:

[Floortank]

So theres more ways to grind light besides killing mobs or waiting for others to spawn NMs? :thinking:

No, but there's a lot of ways to go about the grind. Because you can chain as an objective, farm cold boxes as an objective, farm rabbits as an objective; you can pull massive tons of mobs with no chain as an objective, and you can take a break without the entire duty grinding to a halt, and go solo something or swap camps and still have some hope that something, somewhere, will happen.

You might not like any of these methods, but I do. I happen to hate the mind-numbing dungeon bash method, because it never changes and it's totally impersonal; in Eureka I've made friends. I also get to engage in conversations. That never happens in regular duties.

If you like grinding your relics in pvp, more power to you, but I have every Garo gear, Raigo mount, and every job at 70--I literally get nothing from PVP.

I have all the glamour I want from dungeons and 24 mans. All of that stuff is a waste of my time. It's impersonal. There's no opportunity to make friends or talk to people. You can't take a break. You just bash your head into the same content over and over with no variation, and no chance to stop, during the duty, and smell the roses. Or enjoy the people around you.

I mean, I did it, I have multiple relics from 2.0 and 3.0, but I much prefer Eureka because for me it simply is more enjoyable than bashing through old content with strangers at mach 10.