This Needs to Be Said

[Floortank]

Why do people who like Eureka always fall back on this defense? You didn't need to spam ARF or A1S to complete your relic. If you didn't enjoy running the two over and over...there were alternatives.

I ran everything, but those were the fastest/most efficient, so naturally I ran a lot of those. If I didn't do A1S none of my stuff would be finished. Tracking light and doing a 30 minute 24 man for a chunk of light = might as well not even do it.

The "defense" comes from being able to do the content, and always having people available to do the content. Eureka has that, the efficient dungeons don't.

It also is because doing the same duties for no additional rewards is both A) a lot of work B) boring.

Eureka doesn't depend on me tanking every single moment I'm in there, so it's less work. And I can talk in shout, watch the chaos of a FATE unfold, mess around with bunny fates, or change camps as soon as I'm bored. I can't do any of that in a dungeon, and 24 man raids aren't conducive to any funny or interesting conversations most of the time. So Eureka provides more entertainment, and is less demanding, and thus less mind-numbing.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yeah, right...farm tomestones, next step, farm tomestones, next step, farm tomestones...Frankly, I'll take a dozen Eureka zones just to not have to farm tomestones ever again.
Still, you have a very decent alternative to both the Eureka weapon and the Savage weapon, you can easily not do those if you don't like them and let those who do enjoy.

You're omitting the fact tomestones come from a variety of sources. You can farm dungeons, trials, raids, savage, beast tribes, hunts and pretty anything to obtain them. Eureka has no such alternative. You either grind the same trash mobs, in the same area with absolutely no variation whatsoever or you skip the relic.

And citing the Savage weapon as an alternative is a cop-out. That has always been an alternative on top of the aforementioned. The only difference in Stormblood is people are forced to participate in Eureka whereas they could do literally anything that gave tomestones to progress their Heavensward relic.

If not for weapons and mounts, EX Primals would be dead after the first week.
If not for gear, 8-man and 24-man raids would de bead after the first week.
Claiming that a content is alive only because its reward is attracting is...well, the very core of every content in an MMO.

A better comparison is if they put decent gear in Eureka, but not the relic. Even if that gear ultimately had a higher ilvl than Savage, it would be DoA. Look no further than Diadem where they slapped in a i280 and it still died. Everything else you mentioned doesn't have a unique expansion long glamour that people want. And even the Primal mounts have a reasonable token system you can elect to wait on in lieu of farming them endlessly. Eureka lacks any of this. They put the relic in there purely to avoid another Diadem disaster to save face.

[KaivaC]

To each their own, maybe I should start complaining about how savage mode is offensive to my time.

Go for it. I've made my complaints known about the Diadem/Eureka experiment - forums are an open discussion board, so if that's how you feel, go right ahead.

[Vrankyl]

Eureka doesn't depend on me tanking every single moment I'm in there, so it's less work. And I can talk in shout, watch the chaos of a FATE unfold, mess around with bunny fates, or change camps as soon as I'm bored. I can't do any of that in a dungeon, and 24 man raids aren't conducive to any funny or interesting conversations most of the time. So Eureka provides more entertainment, and is less demanding, and thus less mind-numbing.

Except that it does. Stop tanking for even a moment and there goes your chain. Even worse healers and dps also don't get a break either, otherwise good bye chain. Oh and that 30 Chain you just did, there is a chance that you could get absolutely nothing at all for your time because the light is purely random. This is what people mean by the fact that Pagos is not respectful of the time you put into it. Because you could go in there chain non-stop and actually get nothing at all to show for it. Where as at least with the Anima light you went into those knowing for a fact that you were going to get light.

[Floortank]

Except that it does. Stop tanking for even a moment and there goes your chain. Even worse healers and dps also don't get a break either, otherwise good bye chain. Oh and that 30 Chain you just did, there is a chance that you could get absolutely nothing at all for your time because the light is purely random. This is what people mean by the fact that Pagos is not respectful of the time you put into it. Because you could go in there chain none stop and actually get nothing at all to show for it. Where as at least with the Anima light you went into those knowing for a fact that you were going to get light.

I have two elemental weapons, spent very little time chaining.

[Vrankyl]

I have two elemental weapons, spent very little time chaining.

And I have one which took forever to get because light was so rng dependent that there were days the only time I got light was on the off chance a NM spawned, because I drew the short straw for rng light with chains. This content is very much ymmv because of the fact that it is so RNG dependent. Some people can breeze through it because RNG showers them with praise, others (like myself) can go entire lockets without getting a single Frosted Pagos Crystal.

[OurMom]

I don't mind grinding and rng. I just wish they could've tied this into the open world. Like made a new map and put actual, non fate, world bosses in there, made it a stronghold or some type of real dungeon.

Just not another instance that takes away your progression. I don't think it's as bad as people are making it out to be but it still could've been done way better. Maybe they should actually put polls in game? NCSoft does that to get a better view of what people want, even though they rarely apply the advice.

[Floortank]

And I have one which took forever to get because light was so rng dependent that there were days the only time I got light was on the off chance a NM spawned, because I drew the short straw for rng light with chains. This content is very much ymmv because of the fact that it is so RNG dependent. Some people can breeze through it because RNG showers them with praise, others (like myself) can go entire lockets without getting a single Frosted Pagos Crystal.

Not really. I did the entirety of the content with my wife, and she ended up 1.5 crystals behind me. She missed one Louhi and two other minor NMs that I got that she was unable to get credit on, which means she was actually only about 1 crystal behind me doing all the same content. The RNG difference isn't so big that there's going to be two people doing the same content and one is massively ahead of the other.

We did chain parties four times, that's it. The rest of the time, we were popping NMs or farming rabbits. We spent a little time this morning duoing lv35 mobs just to try to get them to mutate/adapt and getting little slugs of light doing that. We were able to invent our own gameplay based on what we felt like doing, and we always had the fallback of other people in the zone popping other objectives if ours didn't work.

That bolded bit is the main advantage Eureka has over old content. You don't have to organize or arrange every single player into a role; other people doing as they will can benefit you.

Another thing is, in those chain parties, I got to actually play DPS. If this was all dungeon dependent, RIP, I'd have to sit in a long DPS queue.

[Canadane]

I...

I liked The Diadem.

[LineageRazor]

I'm always perplexed when folks say Eureka is like Diadem. It certainly doesn't feel that way to me. Maybe they're comparing it to Diadem v2.0? I only tried that variant once. Regardless, there's several things that make Eureka more appealing to me than Diadem:
- Eureka has quests and a storyline. Honestly, I'd prefer to see MORE quests, sidequests and such, but that's beside the point.
- Eureka has a system of progression. You start weak, you get strong. The only "progression" Diadem allowed was the random chance of decent buffs on gear (or, later on, the stupefying luck of getting a better-than-raid weapon with decent stats).
- In Eureka, you're not always grinding the same mob. Well, you CAN, I guess; I know folks swear by their dragons or their Anubis or whatever, but in Diadem, you just ground dinos.
- Eureka has the train. It allowed for a lot of breezy, casual socializing. I was also continually impressed by the willingness of folks on the train to help total strangers. I don't think Diadem had anything similar.

Those aren't the only differences, but regardless, if the only definition of "Diadem-like" is a large, time-limited area with various objectives, then no, I disagree. That's too broad, and there are too many ways to take such a concept and do beautiful things with it. I won't claim that Eureka got the formula perfect, but it certainly did it head-and-shoulders better than Diadem did.